For those interested in the US LLM experience, here is an event that you should attend. On November 10, ten law schools will be hosting an information session on the how’s and why’s of the US LLM.
Not only can you get all your questions answered, but all those who register will also receive a waiver of the application fees which hovers around the $100 mark. Furthermore, registered participants will be the first to receive information on these schools’ in-person India visits which are scheduled for February next year.
Following a general presentation on the US LLM experience, each law school will host separate breakout rooms where attendees can ask questions about that particular law school. Attendees are welcome to move between breakout rooms as they wish.
The event will be held at 7 pm (IST) on November 10, 2022.
First Person Accounts(FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (an LLM or otherwise) from different universities across the world.
Mrinali Menon
In this FPA, Mrinali Menon shares her thoughts on the LLM experience at Columbia Law School, finding employment in the US as an international lawyers, and a whole lot more.
Am sure you get this a lot, but how does one go about finding employment in the US as a foreign trained lawyer? Any advice to share? Did Columbia help with the OPT process?
Employment opportunities in United States for the legal profession as a foreign trained lawyer is a tough nut to crack, quite understandably. Prior to gaining qualification in the U.S., it is a difficult market to navigate as most law firms and organizations require you to be licensed at the respective State Bar.
However, it is certainly not impossible, as most law firms similar to any organization value the experience you bring to the country from your nation. Hence, I always advise every candidate to work on your skillset and apply to firms/organizations which match your strengths and qualifications.
In a country with more than 2/3rd of the market flourishing with domestic lawyers, an international candidate must stick out by capitalizing on your existing experience while hunting for opportunities.
Yes, Columbia University similar to every university assists each international student with the entire OPT process. The University assists you throughout while applying for the OPT permit, and once your permit is granted, the candidate is entitled to work in the country for the 1-year period.
Columbia Law School has a good job fair which attracts employers from all across the world.
They undoubtedly value your experience, and you get the opportunity to apply to various places depending on their requirements. However, being a foreign trained lawyer, it is comparatively difficult to have multiple options.
But again, it is a commitment which comes along with the decision to pursue your higher studies in a new jurisdiction!
Given your expertise in IP, what were the other (if any) schools you had shortlisted? And why narrow down on Columbia?
After comparing the course structures and syllabi of these schools, my reason to pursue Columbia Law was bolstered with my desire to get a General LL.M. While my other admitted schools provided me the opportunity to specialize in Intellectual Property, I chose Columbia as it provided me the option to handpick my subjects.
Since I wanted to appear for the New York State Bar examination, I had to select relevant courses, and alongside, I wanted to gain a basic knowledge of other non-IP subjects as well, such as practicing International Laws, Anti-trust and Trade regulations, Corporations, American Litigation, amongst others in addition to few courses focused on IP.
Hence, despite my expertise in IP, I wanted to use this opportunity to learn other subjects to broaden my understanding of the US legal market.
Was it difficult to make the switch from legal professional to LLM candidate after four years of working? And, on the flip side, how useful was your work experience in the learning experience at Columbia?
Honestly, no.
It was not personally difficult for me to pursue studies after four years of a professional life since I had always planned to proceed in a similar manner with my career. In fact, I was very glad that I got the opportunity to “go back to school” and learn and un-learn my skills.
Columbia endeavours to create a diverse environment, with your peers ranging from 2 years to 15 years in the profession, and undoubtedly, it was a rewarding environment as I got the chance to study with a cohort of trained experienced professionals from across the world.
Hence, I strongly believe that one must pursue LLM studies after gaining a few years of experience in this profession. As the degree states, it is indeed a “Masters” of this field, and the journey bears higher rewards, when you are aware about the profession with the work experience.
Personally, I would not recommend pursuing higher education without a few years [of work experience] under your belt, as not only does it allow you to understand your courses during your LLM better, but it also assists you while finding employment opportunities.
Looking back, what have been some of the most rewarding aspects of the LLM experience?
The entire environment at Columbia, comprising of a great cohort and most importantly learning from the greatest legal minds in the nation and the world, is undoubtedly one of the most rewarding aspects.
Columbia Law is known to have Professors which are legal stalwarts and distinguished names in the industry, and this opportunity to learn from the same people who are the reigning leaders is an experience of a lifetime.
I recall often being in absolute awe and anticipation while attending few lecturers, as those Professors were known for having conceptualized landmark findings and decisions, which are now cemented as “the” theory in law. Columbia Law definitely gave me a lifetime of great learnings with a wonderful set of peers from across the world, and looking back, I am now well-aware as what constitutes the patented “Ivy league” experience.
Not quite connected to the LLM, but what made you opt for a Times of India internship when you were an undergrad in India? Would you encourage other law students to also take up such non-law internships?
The Times of India internship was a great experience as it enabled me to understand the world of media through the editorial lens. Having known that I would be pursuing a career in IP, the desire to know the backstage of how the media operates bolstered my decision to pursue a non-legal internship.
And yes, I would definitely encourage law students to pursue non-law internships as well, since these opportunities ultimately do add value to your skills as you go forward in the career. In a 5-year course, every student gets an opportunity to intern and I ensured that I use my vacation period in exploring new avenues and volunteering/partaking in diverse activities and organizations.
Ultimately, a decade down the road, I am glad that I diversified my internships by working at an editorial house, non-governmental organizations, multi-national corporation, Senior Advocates and definitely law firms, as I believe every learning adds value to navigate your career for the future.
Lastly, any advice for the Indian law graduate who is considering a master’s abroad?
A re-cycled piece of advice – research, interact, and be confident with your choice! A master’s abroad is not only an investment of time, and energy, but most importantly – money. Hence, decide to invest when you are fully aware of the advantages and the challenges it comes with while exploring a new jurisdiction.
Law is a dynamic profession, but it does not always come with a transferable skill set. Your skills as an Attorney with your bar license limits your practice to a particular territory, therefore it is important to map your journey and stay committed.
Hence, it is important to research about your desired schools, courses, professors, alumni, and craft your way ahead accordingly.
It is a learning curve full of great prospects, and a decision of pursuing Master’s is definitely worth the effort!
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As most readers know by now, First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of Indian law graduates who have pursued, or are currently pursuing, a post-graduate course (be it an LL.M. or otherwise) from different schools across the world.
The FPA (International) is meant to broaden this scope somewhat, getting non-Indian law graduates to discuss their LL.M. experiences in different law schools from across the world. The idea behind the FPA(I) interviews is to help the Indian law graduate better understand her potential cohort, and also expand the LLM conversation in general.
Kavell Joseph graduated with an LLM from the American University Washington College of Law in 2016. Hailing from Trinidad and Tobago (where she is admitted as an attorney), Kavell has worked with a number of World Bank Group organisations over the years following her LLM. In this FPA, she discusses her reasons for opting for the AUWCL LLM, thoughts on finding employment in the US, and a whole lot more.
Kavell Joseph
How early on in your life were you considering a foreign LLM? After completing the LEC, how did you go about selecting where to apply, and what were the schools you shortlisted?
Before attending Hugh Wooding Law School (HWLS) for my Legal Education Certificate (LEC) in Trinidad and Tobago, I had no plans to complete a foreign LLM. However, I have always enjoyed international law and succeeded in those areas of law during my three-year LLB undergraduate law program.
My goal was to be a practicing lawyer in Trinidad and Tobago, focusing on environmental, gender, and human rights issues. I was always passionate about raising the issues that affected my community and advocating ways to bring solutions. I was involved in several local environmental and social organizations in Trinidad and Tobago.
However, when I went to Hugh Wooding Law school to complete the final two years of my local law journey, I represented the school at the Stetson International Environmental Moot Competition in February 2015.
The Competition required my team member and me to travel to Washington D.C. for the regional rounds held at American University, Washington College of Law (WCL). During my attendance, I became aware of the LLM programs offered abroad and the opportunities they could lead in the international arena.
Soon after my final year law school exams in Trinidad and Tobago, I applied for the American University, Washington College of Law summer program. The program was held for about a month, between June 2015 to July 2015.
I thoroughly enjoyed my time during the program as I met experienced lawyers from all over the world and engaged with professors with a wealth of international experience. I also noticed the difference in the teaching style that existed in the American Law school system.
Upon completion, I applied for the International Legal Studies LLM program at WCL.
Simultaneously, I was admitted as an attorney in Trinidad and Tobago in November 2015. The staff members at the admissions office at WCL were helpful during my application process, guiding me along the way. I also received a partial scholarship from WCL and started my program in January 2016.
Since I was confident I wanted to attend WCL, I did not apply to other universities to complete an LLM.
Looking back, what were some of the most rewarding aspects of the LLM experience at AUWCL? How did the LLM help you in your professional career?
The most rewarding aspect of my LLM program was the wonderful people I met, from students to professors. I have gained access to a community of professionals practicing law and public policy across the globe.
Additionally, I got to learn about the unique cultures of my friends and colleagues, which is an experience I would not have had if I had stayed in Trinidad and Tobago.
Additionally, my LLM experience opened the door for me to enter the World Bank Group.
Were there any cultural differences that you took time to get used to once you started working in the US?
A significant cultural difference was the networking culture in Washington, D.C. Growing up on a small island, most of the opportunities that a person obtains heavily relied on your family’s social status and whom you may know due to that status.
I learned very quickly that applying to a job you are qualified for in Washington, D.C., also requires networking since most organizations receive many qualified applicants for employment. Networking enabled me to come out of my comfort zone. I felt it was a fresh start for the fantastic opportunities to come.
Since the LLM, you have undertaken a number of research and advocacy roles – how does one go about working in these spheres as foreign trained lawyer? Any words of advice for those who are looking to follow a similar pathway?
Since my LLM program, I have worked at the World Bank Group on several legal and public policy issues, from gender equality, refugees, climate change, and youth employment to digital technology.
It is advantageous to complete an LLM or a master’s in public policy at the location of the institution you would like to eventually work in as it is easier to network with colleagues in-person that may be working at these international organizations.
Additionally, being bilingual is very helpful to many international organizations’ work.
My words of advice for those looking to get into the international field are to find the areas that you are passionate about, never say no to any opportunity as you may not know where it would lead you in the future, and enjoy the current process no matter where you are in life.
How does one become a consultant to the World Bank Groups? Is there anything in particular that you think has helped you find these roles?
The best way to become a consultant at the World Bank Group, from my own experience and observations, is to complete a master’s program in Washington, D.C., or to have a wealth of experience in your respective country in the areas that you would like to work on eventually at the international level.
Networking locally has been helpful for me in finding different consultancy opportunities within the World Bank and outside of the World Bank.
Lastly, any advice for the law graduate who is considering a master’s abroad?
My main advice is that if you see an opportunity to study abroad, do not hesitate to take the chance. If finances are an issue, look for scholarship opportunities within the university or the many global programs like Fulbright, Hubert Humphrey Fellowship Program, etc.
Additionally, once you start your master’s program, start networking immediately. Utilize LinkedIn to find people working in the fields that interest you and send out professional and unique messages to each person you are engaging.
Meet people for coffee or lunch and attend networking events. While it may seem tedious, it only takes one door to open for you to access new opportunities. Do not give up on your goals and dreams.
Prioritize living a balanced life by treating yourself well.
I would be happy to connect on LinkedIn if you have further questions.
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First Person Accounts(FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (an LLM or otherwise) from different universities across the world.
What was the deciding factor when it came to your decision to go for an LLM right after law school?
I always wanted to pursue masters in a single go right after finishing the degree (BBA LLB) at Symbiosis Law School, Pune (SLS). My father always advised me to focus on a specialisation that I am interested in and dive head straight into it.
By the time I finished my 4th year of law school I had made up my mind to pursue further studies focused on Intellectual Property Laws. I was always passionate about IP rights and commercial aspects thereon, but interning specifically in the IP departments on multiple occasions definitely helped making the decision to base my career as an IP lawyer.
Given the background, I would say the deciding factor(s) were the passion and the opportunity available to pursue further studies, learnings from the internships undertaken in the IP field, parental support and a genuine travel bug.
Once a foreign LLM was on the cards, how did you go about selecting the places for applying for the LLM?
I was clear from the start about studying the LLM in the United States, so the choice was already filtered. The decision to select the university mostly depended on the programme offered, the professors, scholarship availability and occasional googling about the rankings.
Additionally, SLS, being one of the top law schools in India, offered great opportunities to engage with foreign university representatives.
With all the factors in mind, Penn State Law School fit in perfectly to complete the puzzle. Penn State has a great IP programme with renowned faculty and scholarship opportunities.
At what point in time during your undergraduate degree did you start the shortlisting and application process?
I started jotting down a rough strategy on how to approach the process, and started from the ground level. I took everyone’s advice seriously and acted on it, for instance, someone advised foreign colleges accept students with legal publications, so I started writing a research paper in my 4th year.
I took the TOEFL exam 6 months before I started applying and started collecting and filing documents around the same time. I strongly believe the hardest part about applying for a masters abroad is figuring out and gathering required documents before starting your application.
You went forward with a second LLM degree after gaining some work experience. What motivated you for the same? Once decided, how did you make the choice of Queen Mary?
I never thought of myself to pursue two masters (frankly no one did). When I returned from the US with the general IP masters from Penn State, I started working with Naik Naik & Co. (NNCO) in their non-contentious team, advising clients from the media and entertainment industry.
Working with NNCO I had the pleasure of advising national and international production houses, studios, talent management companies and celebrities. After working for roughly two years with the firm (1 year WFH due to Covid-19), I decided to learn more about the international market and entertainment industry.
Plus dealing with being at home (in Udaipur) and WFH, gave me ample time to think about my future and how to proceed with my career.
The desire to study further was also backed by NNCO and especially Mr. Lavin Hirani (Partner, MDP & Partners, Mumbai).
I am really thankful that I was permitted to work remotely while pursuing the LLM degree at Queen Mary.
Queen Mary was an easy choice.
I wanted to study in the United Kingdom this time around to gain the experience in both, the US and the UK market. Queen Mary is one of the few university in the world offering a full-fledged Interactive Entertainment Law and E-Sports Law module and is ranked the 26th best law university in the world.
Additionally, UK has great post graduate work visa opportunity (2 years post-graduation), which is also a plus.
You have worked quite a bit in the Media and Entertainment industry before going forward with an LLM in TMT laws. How do you think your work experience helped you in your year-long experience at Queen Mary?
The work experience and the practical knowledge I acquired while working in the industry before joining Queen Mary helped immensely during the entire curriculum.
It allowed me to choose advanced modules like Interactive Entertainment Law (Video games law), Commercialization of IP, among others, which modules require a certain level of prior knowledge.
Additionally, it was easier to approach and compare the theoretically aspects with the practical commercial side of things.
Having experienced both, an LLM before and after gaining work experience, what are some of the major differences you noticed between these experiences?
Both LLMs were great but very different from one another. During my first LLM at Penn State, I was a fresh graduate, so the LLM was a continuation of my academic path and getting a more detailed knowledge of my desired field.
Penn State was a fun experience where I made friends from across the globe and grew overall as a person along with first class quality academic experience. Penn State played a major role in expanding my outlook towards different people and cultures.
On the other hand, my approach towards the LLM at Queen Mary was more mature and professional.
Since I had some prior experience in the TMT field, I had the liberty to choose technical and detailed modules. Queen Mary was also a fun experience and I made friends for life, but I had a deeper vision of what I want to achieve with the LLM and how to get there.
How did your LL.M. play a role when it came to getting a job in a firm abroad?
The LLM helped me get an access to the UK market and opened up other avenues, including working in the videogames industry. My two team mates (Avi Bhandari and Juan Alberto Pulido Lock) and I, as the team “Pisco & Curries”, participated and won the Games Industry Legal Challenge, a renowned annual video games law moot competition.
The team was invited to the Games Industry Law Summit 2022 in Vilnius earlier this year and we got to meet and converse with the ‘Avengers’ of the video games law industry (over 300 lawyers and professional from across the world).
While the LLM put me in contact with the right people, what I understood from my interviews is that my previous experience in the Indian film industry and working with international studios played a major role in securing my current job at Clintons.
You are in your initial period at Clintons, but having worked for quite a bit in India, any major differences between the way Indian and foreign law firms operate?
There are notable differences in the working style of the firms in India and the UK, however the commercial aspects of the business are inherently similar.
The differences include the legal drafting style, working pattern, billing the clients, hourly rates, and the overall culture as such.
However, I believe working in a Tier I Entertainment law firm in India and advising international clients, prepped me very well to adjust in foreign waters.
Lastly, any advice for the Indian law graduate who is considering a master’s abroad?
My main advice for anyone considering a masters abroad would be to first figure out the agenda behind pursuing a masters.
If the aim is to find a job and work abroad, I would advise to pursue the masters after gaining substantial experience in a field. A masters with prior experience definitely helps the job hunting process.
If the aim is to pursue a future doctorate or a career in academics, choose a college that aides research.
If the aim is to have fun and enjoy a year getting to know people and living in a foreign land, then there is nothing wrong with that, just ensure you make the best out of it and have a blast.
In any case studying abroad helps you grow your personality and opens up your mind and thinking to a broader horizon.
(This interview was conducted by Swati Sabharwal, a law student at the University Institute of Legal Studies, Panjab University)
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First Person Accounts(FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (an LLM or otherwise) from different universities across the world.
Madhumitha D Selvakumar
In this FPA, Madhumitha Dharmapuri Selvakumar discusses her LLM experience at Cornell Law School, the LLM application process, and a whole lot more.
How early on (in your undergrad) did you decide to enrol for a foreign LLM? And when did you begin the application process?
Well, believe it or not, I didn’t have the faintest idea about pursuing Masters abroad, when I set off my fifth year at Tamil Nadu National Law University, Tiruchirapalli India.
When my friends were discussing about internships at big law firms or passing the Bar, I was at a point in life where I had to stop all the fun and narrow my interest to pursue the career I desired in Intellectual property and entertainment law.
Up until that moment, I hadn’t heard or even knew of many successful entertainment/media lawyers in the South of India to capture an opportunity for work, maybe that was just my diligence. The road forked in various directions with overwhelming thoughts as I contemplated my next move.
But by the end of the first month, I knew with complete conviction that I needed to fine-tune my knowledge in the above mentioned area of law. I heeded to the impression that my soft skills and my knowledge were lacking the edge thereof to pursue a successful career in India. Like most kids, I discussed about my life after law school with my mentors and parents but the best advice came from the person who knew me better.
It was my dad who pushed me to pursue a Masters’ course abroad. After much deliberation, I decided to take on his advice as it suited my goals. While preparing for mid-semester exams around the time of early July, I began the prep for applying to law schools abroad.
What were some of the criteria used to narrow down on schools to apply for? And how did you end up choosing Cornell?
I researched about goal-oriented law programs, the stats, the resources, reviews from alumni and narrowed my target countries to: Singapore, U.K and U.S.A. It was long process than how the sentence seems; it nearly took two to two and half months of research in my case to appraise the documents and weightage of opportunities for growth.
I roped in my brother who also had similar interest to pursue his Masters abroad to get an insight of peculiarities of specific Universities, the advantages and disadvantages of pursuing law in each country, including the visa process for each country.
By now, you probably can get a hold of my decision-making process. I always tend to narrow the possibilities to match my goals, to get a better perspective. This ultimately played a good role in deciding the law schools that best suited my goals.
I concluded my application process by applying for about five to six Universities. I got three acceptance offers back and choosing Cornell was an easy choice for me in particular because it accommodated all of my checklists.
I love research and paper publishing my work for resource. Cornell was the best suited university for the same, it is specifically a research-oriented university, it had resources and connections with established and renowned professionals that will mould and train with the best student lot.
Hearing from alumni, I was taken on board that the students are as talented or always one step ahead of you, which intrigued me to be part of its thrilling environment for progress. Cornell was also an option which was not too academically heavy, it gave a platform for various extracurricular activities as well.
I am a person who gets involved in multiple organisations not related to academics, which is really funny because my parents were expecting the opposite. I am into dance, communications and other related activities.
Upon exploring Cornell’s website and social media pages I stumbled upon hundreds of clubs, many suiting my interests. This checked the list.
However, final ultimatum that sealed the deal was the Campus! Cornell is surrounded by nature, and the population of Ithaca is majorly students both from Cornell and Ithaca College, which was perfect in my case to mingle and get close with my batch.
Any advice on how to go about the application process itself? More specifically, how did you prepare the statement of interest?
Looking back at the application process, I would suggest for potential LLM students, to start researching and exploring options early on. By the end of fourth or beginning of fifth year they should be ready to start applying. I made the mistake of waiting a tad bit too long to start the process, which added pressure.
Navigating through pressure and stressful situations might waver decision making skills similar to that of panic buying, which definitely should be avoided.
Upon narrowing the decision on the universities, I’d suggest to prepare the professors providing letter of recommendation in advance with an insight of the application process, the recommendation format and discuss elaborately on how you want to be portrayed to the school. The professors usually have a rough idea, but using the same standard format will not set you apart, so I highly suggest having one on one meetings.
Discuss with the professors on the strengths, academic and non-academic achievements, research and performance in class that needs to be part of the letter of recommendation.
As for the Statement of Purpose, it is a playground that decides whether the candidate fits right in with the university’s goal and purpose. It basically as I understand, answers the question of what you could bring to the university, what kind of asset are you, what is your potential contribution to the community and what sets you apart from the other likely candidates.
While it might seem a lot, it is basically you framing a document about your best self. I recommend writing your positives, strengths and your goals. Get hold of a template, read different statement of purposes from previous LLM students or other degrees and choose a template that best portrays your language and your style. From then, there is going to be lot of drafting, redrafting and reviewing.
Peer review the statement of purpose and be ready to receive comments(both good and bad) because at the end of the day, it is going to help improve your shot at your dream university.
Looking back, what were some of the bigger differences in the learning experiences at TNNLU and Cornell? Again, with the benefit of hindsight, what have been some of the most rewarding aspects of the Cornell LLM?
TNNLU was my stepping stone to where I am right now. My undergrad was a long 5 years integrated program of B.Com and LLB (hons). It in literal sense sharpened my management between academics and personal growth. I understood the importance of socializing, being present in discussions and actively participating in organisations which helped in securing internships.
The range of courses varied from basic Indian laws to specializations in IP, Space and other cohorts. The professors were skilled and really helpful in guiding with my research and projects in my specializations. I would like to give a shout out to one particular professor without whom I wouldn’t be specializing in IP, abroad.
Prof. Mahindra Prabu was my intellectual property law professor. His knowledge, teaching methodology, researching skills and approach were top notch. His guidance helped me in my research and framing the skeleton of my first paper publication which was later published at an international conference in Singapore. In all-inclusiveness, TNNLU laid the base path to achieve my aspirations.
Deciding to pursue masters in Cornell was the best decision for my career. Cornell’s resource, professors, students, course structure, management and its involvement in student affairs were remarkable.
As a researcher, I had the opportunity to exploit various materials and tap into communal perceptions and discourse to enrich my knowledge. This helped in publishing another paper for Journal of Intellectual Property Rights. The first semester was hybrid due to Covid and even though it was a bit difficult to experience full lifestyle of Cornell, we made the best out of it, by socializing in the discussion zoom meetings and occasional gatherings.
The 2021 batch had students from different countries, cultures, ethnicity and race, which was fascinating to interlace and learn. The community overall was enriching and vibing with different ideologies and beliefs. The academics at Cornell was focused on intellectual property law and entertainment in my second semester, which was in person. I had the opportunity to observe the class room settings, the discussions, the teaching methodology.
The biggest difference from TNNLU to Cornell would be the community I was part of. The growth, the knowledge and the intellectual discussions was placed in variable magnitude that supported my endeavours.
Lastly, any advice for the Indian law graduate who is considering a master’s abroad?
An advice for all the graduates from my experience would be to follow the basic principle of less is more.
Don’t overdo the applications, don’t overthink probabilities and make sure you know what you are perceiving to gain from the program when you are applying to a particular school. This will make the process easier to proceed further while drafting the statement of purpose.
Also, it is okay if at present you are unsure of what you want to do in life, it is okay to make decisions and learn from them, it is also okay to slow down and take time for yourself but at the end of every curve, always look for opportunities to improve yourself, to be the better version of yourself.
Make sure to revamp- the positives, the negatives and the constants. To have empathy for yourself and understand that law program can be exhaustive.
I would like to convey my kudos to you for considering an opportunity to pursue LLM abroad. That process in itself is a step towards success. You have already made it this far; it takes just a little bit more.
I wish all the aspiring lawyers, graduates, students and professionals, the very best.
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