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  • #Interviews: Molina Asthana on Australian LLMs, work-life balance & more

    Molina Asthana
    Molina Asthana

    I came across Molina Asthana’s profile while looking for Indian law graduates who had made the shift to Australia. And the more I read about her, the more I thought she would make for a good interview for Amicus Partners.

    A lawyer practicing in Delhi, Molina moved to Australia in 2004. A masters from Melbourne Law School was followed by stints at two top-tier law firms, being on the Board of the Law Institute of Victoria, and also becoming the Vice President of the Asian Australia Lawyers Association. Amongst other things.

    I spoke to her on legal education, the utility of a LLM from the perspective of an Indian law grad, and law firms in general. Here are some edited excerpts from the interview.

    First off, you do devote a lot of time to non-legal forums such as women in sports, the CommonWealth games, Melbourne University etc – how on earth do you get the time for this?

    It depends on your passion. When you have a passion for something you will find the time to do it, no matter how hectic your schedule. I am passionate about creating greater diversity and inclusion for everyone in mainstream Australian community and I find that a lot of my work intersects as well so in doing one thing, I am also creating value for another.

    I also find that more things that you have to juggle, the more likely you are to do them as you have no option. Whereas when you have much time on your hands you tend to procrastinate and not accomplish much.

    I know it has been a while, but what were some of the bigger differences in the learning experience at MLS as compared to your time as a law student in India?

    Indian legal studies still follow the rote learning technique. I remember that we had to remember case names, citations etc. There was little practical application. Whereas in Australia it is about application of principles. We had open book exams, take home exams or essays, based on either hypotheticals or analysis of cases.

    In Australia it is about application of principles. We had open book exams, take home exams or essays, based on either hypotheticals or analysis of cases.

    Also, when I did my law degree from Campus Law Centre, we did not have any regular moots or similar competitions and not much in terms of gaining practical experience whilst studying. Whereas here in Australia, there is much emphasis on taking part in such activities and also study tours, short-term internships and practical learning, organising seminars etc. Student groups are very active here and engage with the profession at all levels. There is emphasis on mentoring, networking and the value of being part of organised groups/bodies.

    I know things have changed in India since then and when I go and speak at conferences or law schools in India I find that the students are much more engaged and dynamic.

    Any advice for Indian law grads who are looking at the Australian LLM as a means to enter the Australian legal industry?

    I would definitely recommend a LLM from an Australian university as we have some of the best  universities in the world. Melbourne University is rated 7 in the world for law, only after Yale, Harvard etc. Monash is also very good, as well as ANU.  I think many Indian students are not aware of opportunities to do a masters in Australia and that it is a viable and cheaper option than some universities in UK and US.

    However, I cannot assure anyone that it a means to enter the Australian Legal Industry. To be able to practice in Australia you have to either complete an undergraduate law degree or do almost 11 subjects again (if you have done your law degree from India).

    Melbourne Law School
    “I think many Indian students are not aware of opportunities to do a masters in Australia and that it is a viable and cheaper option than some universities in UK and US.”

    The masters does not help to get a job in itself. It may be useful only if you have done the local qualification or re-qualification. Further there are too many law graduates coming out locally every year and they are struggling to find jobs and it is much harder for overseas qualified lawyers.

    The masters does not help to get a job in itself. It may be useful only if you have done the local qualification or re-qualification. Further there are too many law graduates coming out locally every year and they are struggling to find jobs and it is much harder for overseas qualified lawyers.

    I think there are far more opportunities in India for Indian law graduates/lawyers who have completed a LLM overseas then there are in Australia as of now. In the future it may be different when we have reciprocity of recognition of legal qualifications between the two countries, something that I am also working towards.

    So, my advice, looking at the current circumstances, would be to do a LLM degree here and then go back to India for better opportunities.

    One of the interesting points in your interview with Louise Hvala, is how you used your own network to speak informally with potential recruiters. Do you think this aspect of networking is one that Indian law grads should focus on while in Australia for a LLM?

    I think my point was to network to get opportunities directly with law firms. Most recruiters are also biased and would probably not put your name forward as they are not familiar with your qualifications, work experience etc.

    I found contacts that got me interviews directly with partners and I was able to convince them the value I would bring to their law firm. I worked at the two top 5 law firms in Australia and in both places, it was because I met the partners directly. Though I moved on to the government after that to get more of a work life balance, I still stay in touch with them and with starting my own practice, I am now looking to work with some of the partners I worked for (deliberate emphasis on the words with and for) which means I’ve come full circle!

    I always tell this story when I speak about my journey. When I started applying for jobs in Australia, I was told that my Indian degree and experience was not worth much. Recruiters said that it was unlikely that I will get a job at a top-tier or a mid-tier firm, so I should apply with smaller firms. A well-wisher told me that overseas qualified doctors were driving buses, so I shouldn’t get disheartened. Some went to the extent of telling me to give up my profession and start something afresh, even work at a call centre.

    My first job was a top-tier firm. I then moved to another one, having rejected an offer from two other mid-sized law firms. Ironically, I got a call whilst there from a recruiter who had predicted I would never get a job with a top-tier and he said he had an opening at a boutique firm. When I told him, I was at [the top-tier firm] Minters [Ellison], he nearly collapsed.

    I got a call whilst there from a recruiter who had predicted I would never get a job with a top-tier and he said he had an opening at a boutique firm. When I told him, I was at [the top-tier firm] Minters [Ellison], he nearly collapsed.

    So, networking is important and finding a direct route works better than going through recruiters. Also, being proud of your heritage and confident in your background always holds you in good stead.

    In the same interview, you also spoke about the highly competitive environment of law firms as one of the reasons you moved out of private practice. Do you see either Australian or Indian firms addressing this issue? Say, for instance, the mental health problems faced by lawyers?

    I don’t think it is in the interest of law firms to address this issue. They are seeking to maximise revenues by using as little resources as they can and with market sizes reducing, particularly in a place like Australia, it is unlikely that they will do much to address this. In fact, in my time at the big firms I found that competitive behaviours were encouraged. This has led to isolation, depression and high rates of suicides in lawyers.

    In my time at the big firms I found that competitive behaviours were encouraged. This has led to isolation, depression and high rates of suicides in lawyers.

    I am now on the Board of the Law Institute of Victoria which is the peak body that governs the profession and one of our main concerns is the health and wellbeing in the professions, also for judges who are often under too much pressure. We also encourage law firms to address these issues. A lot of law firms have internal policies to address these issues and also free counselling services available, however practically I do not see them having much effect on general health and wellbeing. I also do not see much support systems that exist and I would like to see more being done in this space by law firms.

    You are the Vice President of the Asian Australia Lawyers Association. Given that the legal profession tends to be a high-inertia one, how easy or difficult has it been to increase diversity in the legal profession and the judiciary? And any advice that could be used in the Indian scenario?

    I have been a strong advocate for diversity in the profession not only because I want to see more lawyers from diverse backgrounds appointed to the bench or become senior lawyers in law firms but also because having that diversity is important for securing justice for litigants coming from these backgrounds. It is also imperative that judges are across cultural and cross-jurisdictional issues so that, like the old adage, justice is not only done but is seen to be done.

    However, it is not an easy task to have achieve diversity in the legal profession, including the judiciary. The unconscious bias that people of diverse backgrounds face often translates into virtually no such people in the senior echelons of the legal profession. From the Australian perspective, diversity is not valued in the legal profession as compared to other professions or in indeed Australian society as a whole. Being different means that you had to try harder to prove yourself.

    From the Australian perspective, diversity is not valued in the legal profession as compared to other professions or in indeed Australian society as a whole. Being different means that you had to try harder to prove yourself.

    The legal profession in most Commonwealth countries has traditionally been the domain of the privileged. This phenomenon becomes pronounced in counties where the population is diverse and the under-representation of the changing demography leads to the perpetuation of the bamboo ceiling. There is much work for organisations like the Asian Australian Lawyers Association to address these issues and we do it through advocacy, lobbying with the Government, providing support and opportunities to lawyers of diverse backgrounds and constantly pushing our agenda.

    In the Indian scenario, it plays out differently. Diversity is still an issue but it is more from the class perspective than people of different cultural backgrounds. Law is still a profession of the privileged and people who are from a ‘legal family’ are still likely to do better than those who are not, though with bright lawyers coming out of National Law Schools, things are changing. However, the profession still has a vast divide in terms of the highest paying lawyers, lawyers who are in the corporate sector and lawyers who practice in the lower courts and struggle to make ends meet.

    To address this, there needs to be more homogeneity in the legal profession in India and the quality of legal education needs to improve as well. It should not be considered as a profession of last resort for people who cannot get into any other professional courses. The standards need to increase and there has to be compulsory Professional Development units that lawyers need to do every year to keep their practicing certificates.

    To address this, there needs to be more homogeneity in the legal profession in India and the quality of legal education needs to improve as well. It should not be considered as a profession of last resort for people who cannot get into any other professional courses.

    You mentioned that you always wanted to do an LLM but never really had the time. Would you recommend a foreign LLM to Indian law graduates?

    I always did want to do an LLM when I was practicing In India and from an overseas jurisdiction, but I never could find the time to take a break from work to do it. However, I did an LLM from Melbourne University when I moved here, and I have to say it was the best thing that I have done in my life.

    I enjoyed it thoroughly and I would recommend it to everyone. But I think it is useful to do an LLM only from a good university and after a few years of working in the legal sector because then you really get the most out of it. Also do it on a topic that is of interest to you.

    I have also noticed that good Indian firms and corporates now prefer lawyers who have an LLM from a good university from overseas.  Of course, I have a bias towards Australia as I think it has some great law schools but doing an LLM degree from any good university overseas will definitely increase your job prospects in good firms both in India and overseas.

    Of course, I have a bias towards Australia as I think it has some great law schools but doing an LLM degree from any good university overseas will definitely increase your job prospects in good firms both in India and overseas.

  • The Amicus Interviews: Dhvani Mehta on Indian legal education, LLMs and more (Part 2)

    Dhvani Mehta, VCLP
    Dhvani Mehta

    In the second part of the interview (you can read Part 1 here), Dhvani talks about focusing on academy and research in Indian law schools, the kind of lawyers that VCLP is looking to hire, and a whole lot more.

     

     

    How do you encourage academic research in Indian law schools?

    One [way] is to have good professors themselves. If you see someone who is vibrant and dynamic and can think differently, that kind of motivates you to pursue that kind of work yourself.

    [Another way is] showing students what the value of good academic research can be. A good idea in a law review article can perhaps someday be the basis of a legal argument before a constitutional bench or lay down the foundation for a new law.

    Thoughts on how legal education can improve in India?

    Perhaps a more rigorous clinical legal education may also have helped. We were required to do some internships in a district court, keep a journal of court proceedings. But everyone copied the journal from the previous year, no one actually went to court.

    I had a series of internships all through the five years, but I don’t think I knew what it meant to be a practicing lawyer. Now that I think about it, I wrote a thesis on how the Supreme Court decides environmental cases without ever actually having been in court during an environmental case [hearing] ever.

    Of course, you can write a purely academic thesis that dissects the jurisprudence and that is what I did. But it might have been so much richer if I had a pulse on what was happening in India.

    Is that what got you back?

    Definitely. As I said, the DPhil was such a difficult experience and perhaps made me realize that legal research and academia was not the path I wanted to pursue for the rest of my life.

    Why?

    I just did not enjoy that kind of research. To me, it is an experience that is intrinsically important – you must encourage academia for the sake of it because that is where new ideas come from. I would be the first person to support any type of academic endeavour irrespective of whether it had a tangible outcome or not.

    You must encourage academia for the sake of it because that is where new ideas come from. I would be the first person to support any type of academic endeavour irrespective of whether it had a tangible outcome or not.

    But for me, that was not enough. I was not sufficiently engaged with the intellectual exercise of it. I needed to do something that had some sort of “instant gratification” if I had to put it that way.

    What are the kind of lawyers VCLP is looking for?

    [We look] for people who want to engage. I am not saying you should not have strong ideological positions, of course you should, and you must. But we are also looking for people who understand the importance of talking to different stakeholders, engaging with different actors, and understanding that law making and policy making is sometimes, or most often, a question of compromising. Of figuring out the best balance between competing interests.

    If you could speak to your 18-year old self, would you tell her to study law?

    No. I always wished that I had done medicine and I still wish I had. Not because I don’t find the law rewarding or intellectually satisfying. It is all these things for a lot of people just not for me in the way I had imagined it would be.

    I don’t find legal problems intrinsically exciting. It is not my thing.

    Which is why the work I do at VCLP – health and environment – involves a lot of interactions with people working in that field. Non-lawyers. I am more interested in what I can do with my skills as a lawyer to change actual outcomes on the ground.

    I didn’t expect that at all.

    (grins) I love my job here, and I love the work I do. This is a purely personal [opinion] that could just be something to do with my bent of mind. Which is why I really think that law shouldn’t be something you do after graduating from Class 12.

    I really think people should seriously consider doing a 3-year course rather than a 5-year course if they are not entirely certain about the law as a career. You get a degree in either arts, or commerce or science, and also a better chance to explore what you really might be interested in. And then if you still think that law is the answer for you, you always have the option to do the 3-year law degree.

    I really think people should seriously consider doing a 3-year course rather than a 5-year course if they are not entirely certain about the law as a career. You get a degree in either arts, or commerce or science, and also a better chance to explore what you really might be interested in.

    Any advice for those interested in an LLM?

    One I would say, think about waiting a little bit after you have graduated from law school. Work, figure out what it is that you are really interested in, and apply accordingly.

    Also, obviously we have our set of Ivy League schools and Oxbridge but if there is something in particular that you are really interested in, and it is taught at some not very well-known law school, that is okay. Do your homework and go to the place that you think is able to provide the most to you.

     

    You can also listen to the interview here:

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  • The Amicus Interviews: Dhvani Mehta, Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy (Part 1)

    Dhvani Mehta, VCLP
    Dhvani Mehta

    Dhvani Mehta has been on the list of people-I-must-speak-to for a while now. For many reasons. One, she is a Rhodes scholar. Two, she is one of the founding members of the Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy, a think-tank that has really pushed policy work as a viable career option for Indian law grads.

    Three, it is high time that academy and research is given more attention, and information on academic careers be made more accessible.

    In the first part of the interview, I get Dhvani to discuss her own experiences at Oxford University as a BCL student, an MPhil and then a DPhil. She also talks about, what I consider, the lesser known facts of research.

    Without further digression, the first part of the two-part interview:

    So, I know you always wanted to study outside the country. Why?

    Primarily just for the experience of living in another country and also, perhaps, having the chance to be tested intellectually in a way that I wasn’t at [Government Law College Mumbai]. I am not saying that I had a bad legal education – there were several things that were very interesting and informative about [GLC]. It gave me a lot of opportunities to do other kinds of non-academic activities that I may not have had the chance to do if I was in a fully residential 5-year law school.

    Having said that, I did not have the chance to do any proper legal research in college or do any serious legal writing. So, one of the reasons why I wanted to do an LLM abroad was to see if I would match up to that kind of environment.

    I wanted to see what it meant to really think in a rigorous way and be taught by people who weren’t really interested in seeing what the right answer to a multiple-choice question was.

    [I wanted] to see what it meant to really think in a rigorous way and be taught by people who weren’t really interested in seeing what the right answer to a multiple-choice question was. [People] who make you think more about what the law should be and not what it was. I had a vague idea that’s what an LLM abroad would equip me with.

    Do you think you were right?

    Yes, I would think so. In going to Oxford, my expectations from the BCL were definitely matched and then some. It was one of the most exciting courses that I did. It was unlike any style of teaching or examination taking that I had ever been used to.

    When you mean teaching style, are you talking about seminars?

    Yes. The seminar style of teaching meant you had to do a lot of reading before class. I was taken aback in the first few weeks to know that my classmates had detailed notes on everything they had read [before they came to class]

    Oxford also has this tutorial system where you write an essay and discuss that one on one or in a group of three: you, a fellow student and the professor. You have the chance to critique the other person’s work, hear critique of your own work, defend it, conceive some points and get some very detailed feedback on your writing and thinking.

    You stuck around at Oxford for quite a while. Any surprises along the way?

    After the BCL, I was in for a general shock as far as coping with what writing a thesis or doing a research degree meant. I did not have a very clear idea of what that would entail at all.

    I would say that perhaps Oxford does not do the best job of orienting its research students about what it is really going to be like doing an MPhil or a DPhil.

    And what is it really going to be like?

    It is going to be lonely. It is going to involve a lot of self-motivation. Your experience is going to vary depending on the kind of supervisor you have. You are going to enjoy it only if you are really passionate about the subject you are researching. I think it is a lot about finding your own way.

    How do you do that?

    I suppose trial and error. Perhaps I was unduly harsh on Oxford [earlier]. Of course, we had a legal research methods course, and we had support groups for DPhil students – it helps but ultimately it is something that you have to figure out on your own. I had a very supportive supervisor, and I also had a good college advisor.

    It always helped to generally talk about your woes with other DPhil students, so we would go discussion groups, everybody would moan about the stage in which their thesis was. Everyone would learn not to ask each other how their thesis was going.

    We would go discussion groups, everybody would moan about the stage in which their thesis was. Everyone would learn not to ask each other how their thesis was going.

    The mental health of PhD scholars is a serious issue.

    I would say that there was a time when I was doing the DPhil that I was definitely depressed. I don’t know if it had anything to do with the DPhil or I was just generally fed up of spending a miserable winter in Oxford yet again.

    Again, there is support from the university, there is counselling that you can go to. You can take a sabbatical. There are a lot of systems in place that allow you to find your own pace, but it is still hard.

    Apart from your research, you also worked with Oxford Pro Bono Publico (OPBP)

    OPBP provides legal research assistance to other NGOs who are pursuing human rights cases across the world or made submissions to parliamentary standing committees or other governmental bodies. We would help draft amicus briefs for lawyers, again, fighting human rights cases.

    I won’t say I saw it as an escape from my thesis, but yes it helped having something different to do and something that had a more tangible outcome. You know with the DPhil, you can’t really see the end in sight and it is very frustrating to go to the library every day, sit there for eight hours, and have a hundred words to show for it. Which you will probably erase the next day.

    What is a day in the life of a DPhil scholar?

    It depends on what kind of thesis you are writing. If your thesis has empirical research or a fieldwork component, then you are not in Oxford for some time, and you are out there doing interviews or gathering data from archives or whatever.

    But most legal theses are not like that, so you are just usually sitting in the library, making notes, substantiating your footnotes etc.

    What drove you?

    Getting the “Dr” prefix before your name. I couldn’t be a real doctor, so this seemed to be the best way to do that (smiles). No, but I suppose what drives you is that [a PhD] is the highest academic qualification that you can get. And to anyone who is somewhat nerdy, that is a good goal to have.

    And like I said, for people who are really passionate about the subject matter that they are pursuing or have a real interest in an academic career, a PhD is basically sine qua non– you can’t advance without a PhD.

    I suppose what drives you is that a PhD is the highest academic qualification that you can get. And to anyone who is somewhat nerdy, that is a good goal to have.

    Listen to the entire conversation here:

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  • First Person Accounts: Mitisha Chheda on an LLM in IP from George Washington Law

    First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of Indian law graduates who have pursued a masters course from schools across the world. In this FPA interview, Amicus Partners speaks to Mitisha Chheda, who recently completed an LLM in Intellectual Property from George Washington University Law School (Class of ’17).

    In this FPA, Mitisha talks about the reasons behind choosing a specialised LLM (hint: Conde Nast), how she went about the application process, Research Assistant positions, and a whole lot more.

    Mitisha M Cheddha
    Mitisha Chheda

    At what point in time did you decide to do an LL.M? Was this something you had planned to do even as an undergraduate or was this only something you opted for after working for some time?

    It was during the fourth year of law school that I decided to purse an LL.M. This decision was largely influenced by my brother’s experience; he has earned his LL.M from a U.S law school. His LL.M experiences were an inspiration for me and a starting point for my own LL.M. pursuit.

    Many students who pursue an LL.M. tend to have prior work experience before taking up the course. Prior work experience helps in choosing your Masters’ specialization and allows one to refine their skills in the desired concentration of law.

    How did you go about the process of narrowing down on George Washington University Law School? What were the other schools that you applied to (if any), and how early did you start the application process?

    I have always been very passionate about Intellectual Property (IP) law and Entertainment law. It dates back to my interest in travel photography coupled with the practical insights I gained during my internship at Conde Nast Traveller. It was this internship which led me to pursue law with a focus in IP.

    Post my internship at Conde Nast Traveller I have been crafting my experiences only in IP. So, pursuing my Masters in Law in IP was a natural progression.

    I started preparing for my LL.M application process six to seven months in advance. I had very few law schools in mind for the IP course – George Washington University, NYU, UCLA, Berkeley, and Georgetown. I narrowed down on George Washington University because of its robust IP Program, esteemed professors, and its proximity to the U.S Patent and Trademark Office and the U.S Copyright Office.

    A lot of applicants struggle when it comes to writing the Statement of Purpose – any pointers on how applicants should approach this?

    Indeed, the Statement of Purpose takes up a lot of time and like many other students I grappled as well. My advice is – be a good story teller. Apart from this, you should spend at least (I stress on “at least”) three to four weeks in writing the SOP.

    My advice is – be a good story teller. Apart from this, you should spend at least (I stress on “at least”) three to four weeks in writing the SOP. One should also discuss their line of thought for the SOP with their friends who are not from the legal background. This helps in bringing a new perspective and in simplifying the SOP’s language.

    One should also discuss their line of thought for the SOP with their friends who are not from the legal background. This helps in bringing a new perspective and in simplifying the SOP’s language. Unlike India, the U.S. prefers the written material to be reader-friendly and easy to understand even for a lay person.

    What were the biggest changes that you observed when it came to the learning experience between your undergrad and post-grad days?

    The biggest difference was the classroom experience. In the U.S., professors assign class readings before-hand and they expect you to come prepared for classes. During the class, you are expected to engage in classroom discussion rather than be lectured by the Professor alone. This method is known as the Socrates method.

    I personally believe that the Socratic method was very helpful because every class introduced a new and novel thought process. We were encouraged to participate in healthy classroom discussions and submit various practical assignments as opposed to my under graduate program, where we would just appear for a final written test.

    Was it easy to get a RA post while an LLM student? Any advice for those who may be interested in doing something similar?

    It was not easy to receive a Research Assistant position. I found out about this position through a friend who was already a Research Assistant to the Professor I eventually assisted. One has to be aware and attentive and check out listings for these positions on the law school portal or notice boards.

    Interested students can also reach out to the Professors well before their course starts, even before arriving in the United States. If not as a full-time RA, Professors also hire students on a part-time basis on a project-basis.

    What is your reading of the job market in the U.S? Are you planning to write the NY Bar as well?

    As foreign attorneys its slightly tougher to break into the U.S. job market, especially when your first degree in law is not from the U.S. So it is certainly an uphill task but it can be done.

    The best way to go about your job hunt is to network and build new connections. You can do this by asking for coffee meetings, attending relevant events, and becoming members of relevant organizations.

    For this process to work, it’s very important to stay in touch with your new connections and keep them updated with your progress. Persistence and patience are the most important attributes when looking for a job in the U.S. You have to keep trying and not give up. For most people who land a job, it is an organic process. It’s very rare for someone to land a job over-night, on the basis of a cold email.

    You have to keep trying and not give up. For most people who land a job, it is an organic process. It’s very rare for someone to land a job over-night, on the basis of a cold email.

    As for the New York Bar, it is definitely worthwhile to have it on your resume as it increases your marketability for the U.S. job market. But again, there are jobs in the U.S which do not require you to be enrolled with the Bar. So while it’s a great asset, it may not necessarily be indispensable. I do plan to take the New York Bar in July of 2019.

    Looking back, any advice for law grads who are interested in an LL.M? And would you have done anything differently?

    In addition to doing well academically, being involved in extra-curricular activities is equally important. One should strive to hold at least one leadership position or be a member of a committee during their LL.M. program.

    For instance, be a part of the editorial board of a law journal, or the law school’s moot court association, help organize cultural events, etc. A clerkship with a judge or an internship with the legal team of a government office would also greatly help your resume.

  • The LLM #Admission interviews: Prof. Margareth Etienne, Illinois College of Law

    Margareth Etienne - professor of law
    Prof. Margareth Etienne / Illinois College

    The Admission Interviews (AI) are meant to provide prospective LLM applicants with first-hand information on the LLM application process. In this edition of AI, Amicus Partners speaks to Professor Margareth Etienne, the associate dean for graduate and international programs at the Illinois College of Law.

    In this interview, Prof. Etienne discusses several aspects of the LLM application process – right from how one should go about choosing a law school, what should one write in the Statement of Purpose, the JSD option, and a whole lot more.

    So, let’s start from the start – how early should applicants begin the LLM application process?

    Students should start investigating and doing their research into different law schools probably in the Spring (March-June) before they want to apply.

    And as for the applications themselves, they should begin that process by September because there is a lot to prepare. They have to, in some instances, take an English proficiency exam, arrange finances or apply for funding, obtain letters of recommendation from faculty members or employers, and so on.

    Each school’s application may be slightly different. It is important to find out what the law school requires for the application process, and you should give yourself about 3-4 months for this.

    How do you think LLM applicants should choose a law school?

    There are several factors applicants should consider. I would focus on the faculty and the curriculum. Too many international students rely on rankings. Not only are rankings imperfect proxies for quality, but the reality is that rankings are largely based on the JD program and not the international programs. They consider factors such as the LSAT and GPA of the incoming class ore the job placements figures for JD students. These often have little to do with the LLM or JSD program.

    Not only are rankings imperfect proxies for quality, but the reality is that rankings are largely based on the JD program and not the international programs. They consider factors such as the LSAT and GPA of the incoming class ore the job placements figures for JD students.  These often have little to do with the LLM or JSD program.

    There are a lot of programs that focus on the JD course and do not really have a good program for LLM students. So, you might have a good experience, but it does not necessarily mean you will.

    Take seriously instead the areas of expertise or subject matter concentrations that the law school is known for. I would also look at the faculty to student ratio. It is easy to get lost in a large school.

    And I would finally look at the location. This is important for many reasons – for example, the costs of living – do you want an American campus experience or a large city experience? Most international students don’t have cars, so they should know how close they have to live to the school, how is the public transportation etc.

    Location is also important because you may want to go to a part of the country that you would not otherwise see. After all, [an LLM] is also a chance to experience a different culture.

    What do you look for in an applicant’s personal statement?

    I look for the student’s motivation. Why do they want to come to Illinois? Are they familiar with our faculty and our strengths in technology or constitutional law or corporate law? Do they know anything specific about the law school? Or are they writing one generic statement simply because they want to spend a year aboard?

    I am much more interested in the student who can connect their decision to seek an LLM to something in their background, or their work experience.

    And the last thing I look for is whether this is someone I am going to be proud one day to call a law school alum. The short-term view is what kind of students they will be, but the long-term view is what kind of alum will they be.

    And the last thing I look for is whether this is someone I am going to be proud one day to call a law school alum. The short-term view is what kind of students they will be, but the long-term view is what kind of alum will they be.

    Is this someone who will go out and do different things? Will she think about new ways of approaching a legal problem? What is her future trajectory? A personal statement that can demonstrate these elements is a strong statement.

    How do you think applicants should plan for their finances?

    I would say first look for schools that have an application fee waiver. Second, when you are considering the total cost of the experience including the full cost of living and not just the tuition. When you are applying for the visa, you have to show you possess the finances that cover the full cost.

    Therefore, students should be wise consumers.

    Also, look for a school that has significant scholarships and also what is your likelihood of getting this scholarship. As an administrator I may have to choose between allocating 5 full scholarships or 10 half scholarships. So, you want to look at both the amount and number of scholarships.

    At Illinois, over 80% of our student receive scholarships, and many of our scholarships are about 50% but not all of them. We are known for being a great bargain for a great education because we invest in top international students.

    Illinois College of Law has an option for students to complete the LLM in three semesters instead of two. How does that work?

    One of the things we pride ourselves is the flexibility of our LLM program. Students can begin in fall or begin in January. They can complete the LLM in two semesters or choose to finish in three semesters.

    Now, some students apply for the three-semester option at the outset while others come here and then choose to extend their coursework in order to study for the bar or improve their practice or language skills. It really depends on the student.

    What do you think are the benefits of an LLM from the point of view of an international student?

    First of all, getting an international LLM really opens up opportunities, be it academic or career-wise. The LLM allows students to take the Bar exams in the United States, and in some cases gain employment here.

    But whether a student choses to sit for the Bar or not, the LLM degree distinguishes them when they go back home. The American system of legal education is unparalleled and students think differently after they leave here.

    The LLM broadens your perspectives. Students learn to think about the different ways in which things can be done about various approaches to solving legal problems.

    The LLM also provides important global networking opportunities. One of the reasons I mentioned that students should look at the student faculty ratio is that many students come to the US and study for a year, but after that year, they know no one. You want to go to a school where the faculty member will know who you are, and be able to support you in your career.

    You want to go to a school where the faculty member will know who you are, and be able to support you in your career. And the same holds true for your classmates.

    And the same holds true for your classmates. The Illinois LLM is diverse and so students have colleagues from South America, Europe, Africa, and different parts of Asia. In 5-10 years into their practice, it may be helpful for them to know people practicing law in different regions.

    And you can’t do this by continuing your education at home.

    A lot of our clients are looking at joining academia as a profession. Any advice for those considering the JSD or other doctorate degree?

    I would highly recommend the JSD for someone who wants to teach or be in academia.

    In many countries, you really need a doctoral degree to join the highest ranks of academia. But the JSD admissions are also very competitive, most schools take 5-10 JSD students a year. So, if we have an LLM class of 70 students, even if they all want a JSD we can’t take them all. It is very, very competitive.

    My advice for LLM students who are looking at the JSD is that they should apply to several schools because admission is so competitive.

    Any final words of advice for those interested in an LLM in the US?

    Do your homework and start early. All law schools have detailed websites, so do your homework and really try to understand the program as much as you can.