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  • Amicus Podcast: Episode 07 with Kanad Bagchi (Part 2 of 2)

    The Amicus Interviews are meant for broader discussions on legal education, and the legal profession. As I have mentioned earlier, one field that I am interested is in legal academia, and what it means in the Indian context. I was therefore particularly excited to speak with Kanad Bagchi, an Indian law graduate (KIIT Law School ’13) who is currently a Research Fellow at the Max Planck Institute in Germany.

    In the second part of our two-part conversation, Kanad discusses Indian law schools and the research spaces they have created, the advantages of studying abroad, and a whole lot more.

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    You can read edited transcripts of the podcast here.

    Music credits: Mining by Moonlight” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

  • First Person Accounts: Rini Agrawal on LLMs from Nottingham, Brooklyn Law + NY Bar

    First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of Indian law graduates who have pursued, or are currently pursuing, a post-graduate course from different schools across the world.

    Processed by Collageable
    Rini Agarwal

    In this edition of the FPA, we get talking with Rini Agrawal  who completed her Indian law degree from Bhopal University (Class of ’10). A year later, she enrolled at the University of Nottingham (Class of ’12) for an LLM in International Commercial Law. Five years later, she enrolled for another master’s, this time an LLM from Brooklyn Law School.

     

    What got you thinking about an LLM? Was it something you thought of as an undergraduate, or was it a decision you made after you started working?

    A foreign LLM degree is mostly about getting an exposure of the international market in the early stages of your career, if you decide to move immediately after your undergrad.

    I decided to do an LLM when I was in the fifth year of law school, hoping to upgrade my legal education and get international exposure. There is a lot of hype in the Indian legal market about the fact that top-tier law firms hire graduates from either national law schools or those with foreign LLMs.

    However, it is just a myth. The more you explore the profession, the more successful you will be.

    “There is a lot of hype in the Indian legal market about the fact that top-tier law firms hire graduates from either national law schools or those with foreign LLMs. However, it is just a myth. The more you explore the profession, the more successful you will be.“

    I started my career as an in-house lawyer and always wanted to switch to a private practice as early as possible, which I thought would be possible with an LLM degree. I worked for United Technologies for less than a year because I was motivated to go to the UK for higher education since my law school days.

    Why Nottingham University? How did you go about selecting courses, and any advice for prospective applicants? Did you apply for any sort of financial aid? 

    With a limited knowledge and connections at that time (2011), I always relied on rankings posted on LLM guide (Master of Laws program worldwide). The University of Nottingham (UoN) was ranked in the top 10 colleges in the UK and the modules offered were of great interest to me.

    I was interested in pursuing EU Competition law as my major subject and the faculty in UoN for this particular subject is well known. I chose other courses with a global perspective in my mind that if I practice in any jurisdiction, the knowledge I gain, should help me everywhere. Therefore, most of my subjects were relating to cross border practice for instance corporate and insolvency laws, conflict of laws etc.

    My advice to prospective students is that good research and self-awareness can beat a lot of frivolous information. Think what interests you more, what skill set is required in the market, explore your abilities and then invest in your education.

    “My advice to prospective students is that good research and self-awareness can beat a lot of frivolous information. Think what interests you more, what skill set is required in the market, explore your abilities and then invest in your education.“

    Yes, finances play a pivotal role when you consider education abroad. If you chose any college in London or say New York, the tuition fees, cost of living etc goes up by 40-50%, which is generally on a higher side if compared with other cities.

    I did not apply for any financial aid, my father helped me with the finances.

    After this LLM, you worked in India for a while before moving to Dubai. Looking back, how helpful was the LLM in your professional growth? 

    With a foreign LLM degree definitely you earn some extra baggage and gain confidence in dealing with/ representing diversified clients. Knowledge wise, your perspective to any issue widens and you are able to shape your research/thoughts/advice in a manner, which a client may not question to pay for, unless otherwise.

    Overall, my growth was exponential with this qualification. However, I have a suggestion for students who do not have any work-ex before the LLM, and then join a firm in India or elsewhere with a foreign LLM degree.

    “Research about the firm and partners you are going to work with, before taking up a job. Joining a boutique firm, which has no appetite of your knowledge and skills, may give you a hard time. This decision is crucial as it substantially revolves attorney’s professional growth during initial stages of a career.”

    Research about the firm and partners you are going to work with, before taking up a job. Joining a boutique firm, which has no appetite of your knowledge and skills, may give you a hard time. This decision is crucial as it substantially revolves attorney’s professional growth during initial stages of a career.

    Nearly five years into your job, you opted for a second LLM at Brooklyn Law School. Again, how did you go about selecting law schools, and why narrow down on Brooklyn? Did you apply for any sort of financial aid? 

    Well, this was never a thought I would say until March 2017 when I received my foreign education evaluation from NY Board of Examiners. I did an LLM in the US, to merely cure my qualification, and to sit for New York Bar Examination.

    A bachelor of law degree in India or any other foreign LLM is not a sufficient qualification as per the requirements of NY Board of Examiners and you would require a law degree in the US. So for foreign lawyers this is generally a pathway to become an attorney in the US. [Rules of the Court of Appeals for the Admission of Attorneys and Counselors at Law – § 520.6].

    A follow up question would be,  “Why qualify for the NY Bar?”

    I always wanted to register with either the Roll of Solicitors of England and Wales or the New York Bar . I chose the latter because the US has more scope and opportunities for foreign attorneys, especially in New York. Additionally, it helps to meet the requirements of global clients who are looking for such expertise i.e. dual bar admissions.

    Why Brooklyn Law School (BLS)? It had all features which I was looking for. They have this program LLM for foreign trained lawyers, specifically designed for foreign lawyers who are intending to sit for the NY Bar. However, they do offer a specialized LLM degree in areas like business law, immigration law, IP law etc.

    BLS is one of the oldest law school and well known for its JD program, for excellent faculty members who have made commendable contributions in the US legal system. It is also centrally located (in the heart of NY City), very close to Brooklyn Bridge and surrounded by various administrative offices. Also in terms of Tuition fees, BLS had something reasonable to offer, and an exhaustive list of elective courses.

    I did not apply for any financial aid, though I received 30% scholarship (on tuition) and the remaining was self-funded.

    What were some of the differences between the UK and the US LLM experiences? Would you choose one over the other?

    The teaching methodologies and approach to legal theories are  very different. Work wise, I briefly worked in the UK with a local practice on placement week and my learning was limited to knowing how a typical British law firm operates.

    In terms of US experience, I was fortunate enough that BLS provided a platform for LLMs to apply for a clerkship program in Federal/State Courts. I have never been too enthusiastic about litigation but when I spoke with partners of corporate law firm, they suggested that a clerkship is always a recommended experience to gain while in law school. I got an opportunity to work for Federal Judge (US Bankruptcy Court), which was really a good experience and also a great networking opportunity. I think US law schools have so much to offer in terms of pro bono opportunities, curricular involvement etc.

    You are sitting for the NY Bar – any advice you have on going about this process? 

    Well, the NY Bar is not easy, especially when it comes to foreign LLMs, given the very theoretical approach we gain in our law schools.

    The process itself takes a lot of time; first you do your foreign education evaluation with the Board of Examiners. Then if you do not have a US LLM, you need to think about which law school to apply to. Then you have to choose a bar review course, clear separate set of additional exams like the Multistate Professional Responsibility Exam, New York Law Exam, along with the king of all, the Uniform Bar Exam.

    For the UBE, you need a minimum of two months to prepare without any work commitments. I suggest to have a timeline because this process would take at least 2 years to get you to your Oath Day and sworn-in as an attorney in the US, and yes with a lot of financial commitments too.

    “I suggest to have a timeline because this process would take at least 2 years to get you to your Oath Day and sworn-in as an attorney in the US, and yes with a lot of financial commitments too.“

    Final question – given that you have a fairly global perspective, what is your take on employment prospects for Indian law graduates? More specifically, Indian law graduates interested in working in non-Indian jurisdictions?

    For Indian law graduates, opportunities can be limited unless they have some hands on experience in foreign jurisdiction either by way of training contracts or internships. I have met Indian attorneys who are placed with foreign firms without any foreign LLM degrees.

    It depends on the opportunities you meet with. Given the current scenario, I have seen that Indian lawyers struggle a lot.  Placement in foreign firms based in the Middle East,  a decade back was relatively easier. I have seen that US or UK firms generally look for bar admissions i.e. if a candidate has qualified a local bar.

  • The Amicus Interviews: Kanad Bagchi on Europa Institut, Oxford’s MLF, Academia (Part 2 of 2)

    Kanad Bagchi, is an Indian law graduate (KIIT Law School ’13) who is currently a Research Fellow at the Max Planck Institute in Germany. In the first part of the interview, Kanad spoke about his decision to enrol for a master’s course, the application process, and his time at the Europa Institut as well as at Oxford University.

    In the second part of the interview, we discuss legal academia, the BA LLB degree and the future of Indian law schools, working in India, and a whole lot more.

    [Note from Kanad: Since the conversation with Anuj was rather impromptu, there are couple of things, which in hindsight and upon reflection, I believe could have been more coherently put. Hence, the transcripts are updated so as to make certain points clearer, that might have eluded the audio conversation. Finally, I speak mostly from my own set of experiences and fully understand that there are different ways one could approach the same process. So one has to make that process one’s own.]

    When it came to the MLF applications, you must have been a seasoned campaigner.

    At every stage I think I was getting better.

    For instance, when I started out, a lot of my SoP was not reflective enough. The whole idea of an SoP is that you need to be reflective about your contributions. What is important is what you as a person have gained or learned from what you have done. Say winning a moot – if you can tell someone what you as a person specifically learned out of that whole process of the mooting – that is what they are looking for. It does not matter whether you won the moot or for that matter how prestigious the moot competition was. What matters is whether you came out as a different person from that experience.

    The whole idea of an SoP is that you need to be reflective about your contributions. What is important is what you as a person have gained or learned from what you have done.

    These are some of the things I picked up along the way.

    Another thing is the Letters of Recommendation (LoR) – I think a lot of them don’t take this seriously.

    I know. We get clients where the professors say, “You write the LoR, and I will sign it.”

    I don’t know if that is a very healthy process. I understand that professors are always hard pressed for time. That is always the problem. But LoRs are important.

    When you are applying for a foreign LLM, there is no interview process. The two ways in which a university can know you is through the SoP and through the LoR. Both of them need to be incisive about you as a person. Therefore, it does not matter ‘whom’ or how ‘big’ a professor or practitioner you take your LoR from, but what that person essentially writes in the LoR. How much does it really depict your strengths and your weakness and how minutely does it lay open your potential for research etc. So the suggestion is go after a person who knows you better and who can comment on your personality from close quarters.

    Therefore, it does not matter ‘whom’ or how ‘big’ a professor or practitioner you take your LoR from, but what that person essentially writes in the LoR. How much does it really depict your strengths and your weakness and how minutely does it lay open your potential for research etc.

    And if you are not able to make a case about you, they will not be willing to take you up.

    Solutions?

    The SoP – you need to work on it extensively, and here I speak for myself, sometimes even a couple of months. Because everything that you have done up until now has a certain meaning in your life. You have to try and think about what that meaning is and how that has put you in the position that you are in. You have to build a narrative, connecting your past, present and future.

    The next step in the SoP is that whatever you have learnt, how might that help the university that you are going to? What will be your contribution to the course? That is something that a lot of people miss out on.

    About the LoRs, one thing that I always advise people who come to me is that it does not matter whom you are taking the LoR from however high up s/he may be. You should go to a person who knows you best, who knows about your capacities and most importantly about your failings.

    Also, you have to start early and keep pursuing them.

    Coming back to your career. You completed the MLF course, and then?

    I completed the MLF and then started my PhD at the Max Planck institute for Comparative Public Law and International Law, Heidelberg. Here, I am a PhD fellow which means that I have an employment contract with the institute, and alongside that I do my PhD.

    So, you are working full-time for the institute on the institute’s projects. And on the other hand, you are also doing your PhD which is fundamental research on a particular set of questions.

    What is a day like? Compared to say Europa Institut?

     It is a bit different in the sense that when I was at the Europa Institut I was doing mostly policy level work. I was dealing only with the projects that either the Institut had or the ones my professor had.

    Here I am doing both; I am dealing with projects that are there at the institute, but I am also spending a lot of time working on my own PhD thesis – research, writing papers and attending conferences.

    From where I stand today, I suppose this is how academia works now. That it is not enough for one to have a PhD thesis at the end, one needs publications, one needs to have attended conferences, gathered some teaching experience and at the end of it all, have a publication contract of one’s PhD thesis with a ‘respected’ publishing house. They really want you to conquer the field of academia by the time you have finished your PhD.

    I suppose this is how academia works now. That it is not enough for one to have a PhD thesis at the end, one needs publications, one needs to have attended conferences, gathered some teaching experience and at the end of it all, have a publication contract of one’s PhD thesis with a ‘respected’ publishing house.

    That is a bit unfair.

    It is a very unfair process. It puts a tremendous burden which is why PhD students all across disciplines are showing increasing signs of depression and anxiety. The amount of pressure and stress on PhD students is immense.

    The whole structure of academia is such that you have to constantly push yourself to either publish or show experience in, say, teaching alongside writing a great thesis.

    It is a whole gamut of things that are constantly playing around in your head. Also, it is very difficult to break into academic institutions. It is extremely difficult to do it in Europe, almost impossible in Germany because they have their own structures in place. And then your journey just starts. It takes years before you get tenure. And within that time, you are constantly on the watch as to where you are publishing, how much of an impact factor you are having etc. Once you have tenure you are maybe 45-50 years old.

    Any advice for a law student interested in academia?

    I would definitely tell her/him that it is going to be a difficult process. Not just in terms of building a career for yourself but also when you see your own colleagues around you, that is a big deal. Add to that, the road to a PhD is mostly a lonely walk where you are essentially on your own. Therefore, it helps to be at an institution where you have a set of motivated colleagues to fall back upon.

    I will probably finish my thesis when I am 31 or 32, and my colleagues at a law firm will probably be a partner and earning 10 times more than I will ever earn in my life as an academic!

    I will probably finish my thesis when I am 31 or 32, and my colleagues at a law firm will probably be a partner and earning 10 times more than I will ever earn in my life as an academic!

    These are real concerns.

    Having said that however, there are certain things which perhaps remain particular to academia. The freedom to read, to be rigorous in your approach and the acquired ability to not only analyze issues quicker but deeper, mindful of context and history. Academia allows you to place things into perspective and along that process hopefully never make you lose sight of the bigger picture.

    Would you recommend this path to others?

    Depends. I think academia requires you to, at least at some point, have an underlying passion for learning and studying. And constantly searching for things, trying to read and trying to write. If you don’t have that, then I think it might be difficult.

    This is something that a lot of people don’t realise towards until the end of their PhD which is why you have a huge attrition rate. A lot of people don’t even finish their PhD thesis.

    Would you come back to India? Will someone like you fit into the hierarchies of Indian academia?  

    Yes, I do have intentions of coming back.

    An ordained sense of hierarchy is characteristic of institutions in the country. This is something that I have always had an issue with. It is not like hierarchy does not exist in the West, it certainly does. But there are ways to always get around it.

    But I do think there is a lot that has changed in the last 5-6 years in terms of the people who are coming back and the new set of institutions are coming up in the country. Indian universities are some ways re-defining their own ways of doing research and academia.

    Some that immediately come to mind are Jindal, NLU Delhi, and NALSAR. Here you will find these extremely dynamic professors who know the worth and importance of research. They really want to give you that space to freely think and interact.

    It is not that things are entirely great there, but it is a lot better than what it was before. Another thing that is exciting is that many universities, apart from doing academic work, are also getting into policy work and taking up assignments from various government bodies and other institutions.

    Teaching over research?

    It is always a mix. I think this is something that the West is realizing now – they have put way too much emphasis on research and publication. And it is happening in the reverse in India where teaching was the forefront of everything but now they are realizing that there probably needs to be a balance somewhere.

    I think both of them need to go hand in hand, and academia is really about both.

    The problem is that not all universities give you that space to do it.  And many of these universities have so many students. So, obviously your teaching load becomes a lot more than your research load.

    What do you think is the purpose of legal education, and the BA LLB degree?

    To be really frank, I am not a big fan of the BA LLB course. I am not. Simply because of the fact that I think it serves certain interests, alone. Don’t get me wrong. I am not blaming the students here.

    The course itself is geared towards producing a certain kind of lawyer who is essentially conditioned through the five years to carry a certain agenda in terms of what they want to do with their lives, the kind of work they want to do, they kind of return on ‘investment’ they ought to have and the kind of people they want to work for. Therefore, it nurtures a social setting that puts value on only a few selected courses and a few selected career paths, while measurably sidelining all other possibilities.

    The course itself is geared towards producing a certain kind of lawyer who is essentially conditioned through the five years to carry a certain agenda in terms of what they want to do with their lives, the kind of work they want to do, they kind of return on ‘investment’ they ought to have and the kind of people they want to work for.

    Surely, there are reasons for this. Law school fees are exorbitant in most places. Add to that the pressure of traveling for moots, interning at least twice a year and participating in at least a couple of conference, at home, but preferably abroad.

    All this put immense pressure both financially and emotionally on parents and students alike. Hence, the need to see viable returns on these investments push quite a few students towards perceiving value of their education in only certain kinds of jobs. Therefore professionalization of education is not always a great idea.

    It is a system that you have benefitted from.

    No doubt. But if you ask me what would ideally be one of the purposes of legal education, I believe, is that it need not and should not be entirely about a professional career advancement program.

    You need lawyers who are able to reflect upon the very structures of society that they are a product of. And see who have essentially contributed towards creating these structures and who really benefits from these structures. That critical thinking has to be present and I think it does not always come from the BA LLB course.

    You come out of school, you don’t have a sense of anything in the world. You don’t have a grasp of a single subject. You have not learnt history, economics, political science and then you start with the law. And law has no meaning on its own.

    Law rests on the institutions of other disciplines.

    Well, you do have a BA component.

    But then how much of it is taught?

    I think I would definitely favor the situation where you have a grounding in a particular subject whether it is history, economics etc. And then you get into the law and see where the legal structure fits into that framework.

    Which is why you will see that the best kind of legal research that is done is inevitably interdisciplinary. I think you need to have a certain discipline that you can call your own before you get into law. Otherwise it is very difficult to have a reflective process.

    For example, I really don’t think anybody can study constitutional law or international law for that matter, without studying history. It is impossible to do it. You would be blindsided and myopic in your approach.

    Would you recommend higher studies abroad even if you are not interested in academia?

    I would. It is a great opportunity for you to see what lies around you. And of course, I am speaking from a place of privilege because I have been able to go there. But as I said, if you get a chance through scholarship or external funding, I think it makes sense to take those nine months or a year, keep that aside, and just see what exists around the world.

    If you get a chance through scholarship or external funding, I think it makes sense to take those nine months or a year, keep that aside, and just see what exists around the world.

    You will meet so many different people, see so many interesting things that when you come back and practice it will really shape what you want to do. I think it has a huge impact on your future career whatever that may be.

  • Amicus Podcast: Episode 06 with Kanad Bagchi (Part 1 of 2)

    The Amicus Interviews are meant for broader discussions on legal education, and the legal profession. As I have mentioned earlier, one field that I am interested is in legal academia, and what it means in the Indian context. I was therefore particularly excited to speak with Kanad Bagchi, an Indian law graduate (KIIT Law School ’13) who is currently a Research Fellow at the Max Planck Institute in Germany.

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    In the first part of our two-part conversation, Kanad discusses the reasons behind taking up a master’s program at the Europa-Institut, what being a research scholar means and a whole lot more.

    You can read edited transcripts of the podcast here.

    Music credits: Mining by Moonlight” Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/

  • The Amicus Interviews: Kanad Bagchi on Europa Institut, Oxford’s MLF, Academia (Part 1)

    The Amicus Interviews are meant for broader discussions on legal education, and the legal profession. As I have mentioned earlier, one field that I am interested is in legal academia, and what it means in the Indian context. I was therefore particularly excited to speak with Kanad Bagchi, an Indian law graduate (KIIT Law School ’13) who is currently a Research Fellow at the Max Planck Institute in Germany.

    Kanad Bagchi
    Kanad Bagchi

    In the first part of our two-part conversation, Kanad discusses the reasons behind taking up a master’s program at the Europa-Institut, what being a research scholar means and a whole lot more.

    [Note from Kanad: Since the conversation with Anuj was rather impromptu, there are couple of things, which in hindsight and upon reflection, I believe could have been more coherently put. Hence, the transcripts are updated so as to make certain points clearer, that might have eluded the audio conversation. Finally, I speak mostly from my own set of experiences and fully understand that there are different ways one could approach the same process. So one has to make that process one’s own.]

    When did you decide that you wanted to do a master’s?

    I think that would be in my second year, which is quite early. [The decision] was primarily because of the influences that I had at that point in time. In 2008, we had some really engaging faculty members. The faculty were exceptional, I enjoyed my classes, read widely and began writing shorter pieces, all of which finally lead me into thinking that ‘studying’ and writing is something I enjoyed immensely.   

    A particular influence was Professor Faizan Mustafa who was the KLS Director then.  He was one of those people who used to really push students towards the rigour of study. He told us to try and love the law for what it is and other things would fall in place. The (Late) Prof. Kumar Kartikeya was another such influence who really managed to ignite a certain inclination towards learning, for the sake of learning itself.    

    Many of my internships were also similar. I particularly wanted to intern with Dr. Rajeev Dhawan especially because he was one of those rare blends of practice and academia in the country. At that time (2010-2011), policy-oriented research was also a big thing, so therefore, I believe an opportunity to intern with the Observer Research Foundation in New Delhi was also somewhat a turning point.

    How did you decide where to go, what to study?

    Since we were only the second batch of KLS, there was hardly any institutional set-up to help students ponder over higher studies, nor did we have too many seniors who had explored studying abroad (there were some exceptions of course). I started speaking outside of the university, people I met either at internships or moot courts. And I could see that there were many who had similar trajectories,  and most importantly, seemed to know their next steps, were doing pretty well, were going places. Then there was quite a lot of information on internet forums, Information on how to apply, what a Statement of Purpose is, how to write one etc.

    I knew I loved a particular subject – constitutional law – so I started looking at universities that offered such courses, had good faculty and a focus on research. The problem was that I needed funding. So, the next step was to bring that list down to universities where the probability of funding would be higher.

    There was always this complex that I would not get in anywhere. A lot of my peers and friends would perhaps explore other options instead of going through the entire application process and face rejection.. At that point, I thought the best thing I can probably do is to apply to as many different places and see if something works out.

    There was always this complex that I would not get in anywhere. A lot of my peers and friends would perhaps explore other options instead of going through the entire application process and face rejection. At that point, I thought the best thing I can probably do is to apply to as many different places and see if something works out. Accordingly, my applications had to be tweaked keeping in mind that what works for one university or programme does not work for others.

    That must have been quite stressful.

    I was really privileged in the sense that I was not doing it alone but had two other colleagues of mine who were similarly placed. We helped each other out, we had a little group and we would gather together the information we would have collected from the several people we had spoken to, or written to, or the things we had read on the internet. We helped each other reflect on our motivations, our strengths and weaknesses, our long term goals etc, which turned out to be extremely useful while writing our SOPs/SOMs.

    The applications were a very taxing process not just in terms of effort but also money, each application would cost 50-60 US dollars. And most of them did not work out! In most cases, admissions came through, but there was no offer on funding.

    I had also applied to the DAAD scholarship, because the program attached to the DAAD scholarship was very interesting. It was a program on European Union Law and International Law, at a time when Europe was reeling under the twin pressures of the Eurozone Debt crisis and a looming refugee crisis. The courses on offer particularly dealt with those issues and fascinated me greatly. The DAAD scholarship has been around for quite a while and had acquired a different prestige of its own. Add to that, it was a full scholarship. Everything from your flight tickets, to your accommodation, stipend, insurance and university fees would be taken care of.  And it was a free application, so even more of a reason to apply!

    And out of all of these, for whatever reason, DAAD was the only one that gave me the funding and the choice of course.

    And the access that DAAD scholarships provide.

    Correct. At that point of time I did not realise the platform that the DAAD offers. All I knew was that they were giving me a stipend, and they were paying my tuition fees. But it was only when I went there, I discovered that  it is a lot more than just that.

    [The DAAD scholarship] was different in two ways I think – one was I got to experience how an European university works, not only in terms of teaching subjects of international law but European universities teaching European law. And what really added extra value was that when I went in (2013-14) Europe was reeling under a massive crisis. There were too many questions that people needed answers to.

    The other was that the DAAD opened up a lot of other doors. We used to have regular DAAD conferences, where we met people from all across the world and across disciplines. DAAD also gives you an additional stipend for 2-2.5 months to finish your master’s thesis towards the end. So right after, I got a position at the Europa-Institut itself. This was a turning point in terms of the fact that I knew I wanted to be in academia.

    “This”?

    Academia on one hand and working at a research institute on the other.  The Europa Institut is part of something known as the John Monnet Chair set up by the European Commission.

    Europe being in crisis, there was a lot of work coming in from the Commission. Everybody was looking for answers, and if you are looking for answers where do you go to? You go to the experts, intellectuals, you go to academia.

    Everybody was looking for answers, and if you are looking for answers where do you go to? You go to the experts, intellectuals, you go to academia.

    The professor I was working under used to get a lot of projects, and he was kind enough to involve all his researchers. One such projects had to do with the European sovereign debt crisis. And I fell in love with it because on the one hand you had European constitutional law, and on the other hand you had hard-core finance.

    Pardon the ignorance, but as an RA at Europa-Institut what did you do all day?

    That is a question I get all the time. Most people tend to ask me, “I don’t know what you do.” (smiles)

    Typically, you divide your time between projects that are from the outside, say a project from the European Commission, and the existing projects of the institute itself. With respect to the former, our task as RAs was usually in the nature of researching for advisory opinions and drafting position papers, while the latter mostly consisted in book projects, or conference projects with the ultimate aim of publishing something.

    Would you say this was difficult?

    It was demanding in two ways actually. One, you obviously had deadlines for these projects.

    Second, to produce a work which is reasonably good is not always easy. Writing thirty pages is not difficult, but thirty pages which make sense is quite a difficult job. They want you to produce something that is relevant, something that is useful, and also adds something to the existing body of work.

    Writing thirty pages is not difficult, but thirty pages which make sense is quite a difficult job.

    It is a really long process. And you would find that the hypothesis that you started off at the beginning, varies quite a bit by the time you have ended the piece. Your own perceptions have changed along the way, you have read more, you have spoken to more people, gotten feedback, re-worked your own positions etc.

    Also, there were times when the research did not squarely fall in your area of interest. So, there was an additional bit of work that you had to do just to catch up.

    The sovereign debt crisis – was this what prompted you to enrol for the Masters in Law & Finance (MLF) course at Oxford University?

    Correct. There were a lot of things in finance that I liked doing but I was not really able to find the tools, the methodology to do it. I found the MLF course to fit my set of preferences.

    There is an impression that this course is geared towards practitioners, which is correct because you deal with a lot of different things that you would be dealing with in say law firms, asset management companies or investment banks. A big part of the course is very practice oriented but that is one part of it.

    The MLF course also has this tremendous grounding in principles which, in fact, is what you start off with in the beginning of the course. And that is immensely beneficial for anybody really, whether you are a practitioner or an academic.

    The MLF course also has this tremendous grounding in principles which, in fact, is what you start off with in the beginning of the course. And that is immensely beneficial for anybody really, whether you are a practitioner or an academic. You are allowed then to build up on those foundation either in the serve of the corporate or academia.