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  • First Person Accounts: Conrad Noronha on the JD at Columbia Law School

    First Person Accounts: Conrad Noronha on the JD at Columbia Law School

    First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (LL.M. or otherwise) from different universities across the world.

    In this edition, I get Conrad Noronha to speak about the Juris Doctor (JD) programme at Columbia Law School. After completing his LLB from Government Law College Mumbai, Conrad chose a career in litigation in the Bombay High Court. In 2018, he enrolled for the JD course at Columbia Law School; in this interview he shares the reasons behind this move, the experience thus far and a whole lot more.

    Starting with the obvious – why a JD as opposed to the more popular LLM option? Could you share the reasoning behind the move?

    This is a question I get asked a lot and I wish there were an easy answer to this. But my decision to do a JD was a result of many factors, both personal and professional.

    I think my strongest motivation was the need for a good formal education. As you and many of your readers may know, in Government Law College, students do not really attend classes but, instead, intern throughout the year. Most of the faculty, are temporary with little academic or practical experience. In my first year, I had the opportunity to intern at a then newly established law firm which did quality work. I trained under their Mumbai litigation head and learned tremendously. But I had a sense that practical training, as important as it is, is not a substitute for a good formal legal education. Unfortunately, for the large part, I did not receive that at GLC.

    I then decided to get into a Delhi University law school. I took the entrance exam and got a rank that would get me admission into Campus Law College. But I spoke with a few alumni from CLC and I got a sense that the education in CLC wasn’t so much better as to justify doing the first year of law school all over again.

    My second motivation, I feel, goes to the very reason I decided to study law. While studying Economics at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai, one of the things which interested me the most was the impact of global policies, markets, and trade on the Indian economy and its people. Driven by a passion for economic justice, I wanted to use the law to shape international economic policies. I realized, that the Indian legal sector was almost entirely domestically focused and that if I desired to work in the international legal market, I would have to realign my career path.

    These factors were always at the back of my mind. Looking back, I think I started out on the path of least resistance, taking a rather conventional route. But several incidents in my personal life made me revisit and confront my motivation for being in law. That’s when I concluded that the best way for me to get a good formal legal education and enter the international legal market was by doing a JD from a top US law school.

    “Looking back, I think I started out on the path of least resistance, taking a rather conventional route. But several incidents in my personal life made me revisit and confront my motivation for being in law.”

    An LLM was never a serious consideration for me. I believed that given the fact that I wanted a good primary legal education which could help me work in an international setup, a JD was the only option for me. Now that I have been in law school for an academic year, and having interacted with LLMs on an almost daily basis, I am even more certain that I made the right decision by pursuing a JD.

    Once you had narrowed down on the JD course, how did you go about selecting schools? And why pick Columbia in the end?

    I knew that to achieve what I wanted out of my legal education, I would need to get admitted into a top law school. But rankings weren’t the only factor. I spent a lot of time researching the top law schools to see which of them would meet my two requirements of intellectual rigour and an international focus. There were also other factors that I considered like location, employment statistics, and the general culture.

    I started off by perusing the information available on law school websites. I also read opinions on blogs and websites dedicated to law school admissions, taking them with a pinch of salt. I wrote to the admissions offices of many of these schools and spoke with some law students and alumni. All of this helped me get a general understanding of the culture in these schools and what they tend to focus on.

    “I started off by perusing the information available on law school websites. I also read opinions on blogs and websites dedicated to law school admissions, taking them with a pinch of salt. I wrote to the admissions offices of many of these schools and spoke with some law students and alumni.”

    I knew I wanted to work on international issues which are at the cutting edge of legal innovation. The two schools that stood out for me were Columbia and Stanford. Stanford, because I am interested in the legal issues that AI and data privacy pose and Stanford felt like the best place for tech law. Columbia, because it is the most internationally focused of all US law schools. After considering many factors, I finally felt that the scales tipped in favour of Columbia for me.

    I applied to Columbia through the early decision process whereby I agreed to attend Columbia if Columbia selected me. So, as soon as I was admitted, I fulfilled my obligation by withdrawing all my other law school applications.

    How long did you spend on the application process, as well as prepping for the LSATs? Any advice on how much time one should set aside for the applications + LSAT prep?

    It took me around 3 years, way longer than the average. This was primarily because I did not have any guidance on how to go about it. For one, there weren’t any LSAT prep courses in India and I didn’t know of anyone who had taken the LSAT or was taking the LSAT. My first score was decent, given my lack of resources, but it wasn’t good enough to get me into a top law school.

    I finally found a website called 7sage which I found very helpful, both in terms of their LSAT prep and for providing an online community of people taking the LSAT. That really helped me get a score which almost all top law school would consider seriously.

    Did you seek financial aid of any kind?

    Yes, I sought financial aid and received a very generous offer. I am grateful to Columbia for that. But even with financial aid, I still had to arrange for the remainder of the tuition and living costs, which is still very substantial. I was lucky to have an American relative who agreed to cosign a US loan for me.

    Now that you are nearly done with 1L, how has the JD experience been? And if you had to, how would you compare it with your time at GLC Mumbai?

    My JD experience has been amazing. I am surrounded by the smartest group of people I have ever met. Columbia has a reputation for being very competitive, which I am learning is not entirely true. The students out here are extremely driven and hardworking, but many go out of their way to help each other. There is a strong sense of camaraderie and belongingness.

    “Columbia has a reputation for being very competitive, which I am learning is not entirely true. The students out here are extremely driven and hardworking, but many go out of their way to help each other. “

    It would be unfair for me to compare a multimillion-dollar ivy-league law school with a severely underfunded and understaffed institution like GLC. But I’ll try to answer this by focusing on the pedagogy and the intellectual atmosphere.

    The first difference is the use of the Socratic method in US law schools. The way it works is that everyone comes to class having read the assigned readings. The professor calls on a student and questions them on the facts, holding, and reasoning of the case. In the process, the class discovers inconsistencies in the reasoning and ways in which that case can be distinguished from other similar hypothetical situations.

    In most law schools in India, professors lecture on what the law currently is. I prefer the Socratic method because you learn to question the reasoning behind the law and discuss whether the court would have come out differently if it were confronted with slightly different facts. The lecturing method, I feel, helps one learn how to approach cookie-cutter cases, but not how to deal with difficult and complex issues.

    “I prefer the Socratic method because you learn to question the reasoning behind the law and discuss whether the court would have come out differently if it were confronted with slightly different facts. “

    Second, I felt that in GLC and in many Indian law schools law is venerated to an extent where there is a very real belief that the law is always just and the decisions of the supreme court are beyond criticism. In US law schools, too, there is a belief in a certain formalism to the law. But in my experience, many of my professors and peers have pushed me to question certain legal doctrines and reasonings we take for granted. For example, my criminal law professor assigned old cases relating to evidentiary issues with the testimonies of slaves. This was done to demonstrate that the same legal reasoning which we learn today was used to create jurisprudence which we now believe to be grotesque and completely ridiculous.

    Third, the syllabus in GLC did not prepare me for the practice of law. When I started interning at a law firm while at GLC, I was initially, woefully unprepared to work at a law firm. The first-year syllabus in many US law schools, on the other hand, has a yearlong component called legal practice and writing. This, in a way, prepares you for working in the legal sector. I am currently interning at a Federal Defender’s Office and I feel that Columbia has prepared me to efficiently deliver on tasks that I have been assigned to.

    What is your reading of the US legal recruitment market, especially for international law graduates? 

    I will be interviewing with law firms next month and I will be happy to update you regarding the same. But statistics show, that around 95–100% of the graduating class in most of the top law schools are employed. Many of these schools, including Columbia, have a non-discrimination policy, whereby private employers are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of one’s nation of origin. There is almost no way for a firm to know your immigration status while you are interviewing. All the upper-class international students I have spoken with have received employment offers. There are, however, some federal government jobs—like clerkships and working at the US attorney’s office—for which international students are not eligible.

    Having said that, the H1B visa allocations can be uncertain. But, I have been told that most law firms with an international presence allow attorneys, including newly recruited ones, to work from an international office and then come back to the US when they get an appropriate visa.

    “I have been told that most law firms with an international presence allow attorneys, including newly recruited ones, to work from an international office and then come back to the US when they get an appropriate visa.”

    Lastly, any advice for the Indian law graduate who may be considering an education outside the country?

    Law school, whether for an LLM or a JD, is a serious commitment. I would advise your readers considering studying abroad to be clear about their motivations and be aware of the risks involved.

  • First Person Accounts: Shubhi Pandey on the LL.M. at Seoul National University

    First Person Accounts: Shubhi Pandey on the LL.M. at Seoul National University

    First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (LL.M. or otherwise) from different universities across the world.

    In this edition, I get Shubhi Pandey to talk about the LL.M. at Seoul National University.  Shubhi’s choice is interesting in more ways than one; the LL.M. is a two-year program, Asia in general and South Korea in particular is not the most common choice for the Indian law graduate. In this FPA, the Christ University graduate (’18) shares the reasons behind choosing SNU.

    (Edited excerpts)

    Alright, let’s get this out of the way, why Seoul National University? What were the aspects of the 2-year LL.M. that appealed to you?

    I wanted to do something different. When I say that I mean that I wanted to go out of my comfort zone and get an experience of studying in a foreign country which has a totally different culture to offer as compared to the western countries.

    I always wanted to learn a new language and during my undergrad years I never got the chance to do that. South Korea offered me both, an LL.M. and a new language. While researching for universities abroad I was mainly focusing on Asian universities, to be precise Hong Kong and South Korea.

    “I always wanted to learn a new language and during my undergrad years I never got the chance to do that. South Korea offered me both, an LL.M. and a new language.”

    I did apply apply at universities in Germany, Netherlands etc. and got offers from TU Dresden and Tilburg University. However, I got late for my applications to universities like LSE, King’s College, Stockholm University and that was another reason why I mainly focused on Asian universities. Among the Asian universities, SNU has a good reputation worldwide too.

    The master’s program at SNU is two years long. During the first year, the course allows us to explore different options, and we can decide our major after the 1st or 2nd semester. I have decided to major in international law.

    The course here also allows us to get a double major – this was one more interesting thing about the master’s program here.

    At what point of time as an undergraduate student did you decide to embark on a master’s? Did you consider working for a few years before the LLM?

    I always had a plan to get a master’s degree. However, I finally decided to embark on a master’s in my final semester as an undergraduate. So technically I was late for the more sought after universities but I did not want to drop a year and take a break from studies.

    During my internship at a law firm in my 9th semester, I realized that academics is what I enjoy more. So I decided to apply to some good universities which are not the very conventional ones where Indian law graduates usually go. That is how I found Seoul National University.

    At SNU, apart from my master’s degree, I am also learning Korean language at the Language Education Institute which is a part of SNU.

    This may be a repetition but how did you go about selecting just where to study? And any advice for Indian law graduates who are researching on just where to apply for a master’s?

    My father was the one who helped me in researching for universities with good master’s program. It is then that we found out about the master’s program at SNU. I felt the mater’s course at SNU was perfect for me because it allowed me to explore my options. And, like I have said earlier,  I am getting to learn a new foreign language which has helped me adjust here better.

    My advice for law graduates would be to actually ascertain their areas of interest very carefully. Then they should start shortlisting the universities which offer programs that are most suited to your areas of interest. You should make sure that you take note of the deadlines of all the universities where you want to apply. I believe you should start your research on universities as early as possible. Go through the admission procedure very carefully before you start the application. Make sure you have all the documents ready, keep your LoRs and the SoP ready well in advance.

    “Go through the admission procedure very carefully before you start the application. Make sure you have all the documents ready, keep your LoRs and the SoP ready well in advance.”

    Could you tell me a bit about the application process at SNU?

    The application process at SNU is quite simple. It is an online application. However, the university may ask you to post few documents. You need a statement of purpose and two letters of recommendation like most other universities.

    After the admission process is successful, they announce the result on the date specified on their website. Then they send you admission documents which are required for the visa application. The number of foreign students here at SNU is quite considerable. It varies from department to department.

    You are also a SNU Global Scholar. How does one go about applying for it?

    There are 3 types of SNU Global Scholarship:

    • Type I- This includes tuition waiver and some allowances
    • Type II- This includes only tuition waiver
    • Type III (Korean Language Scholarship)- This is awarded to students who want to take Korean Language classes at the Language Education Institute, Seoul National University.

    I am a recipient of Type II scholarship. I am receiving a full tuition waiver for my master’s program here.

    The application for this scholarship is announced twice a year. Once in December and once in June. The application procedure is simple. You have to fill in the application form and submit it at the office. If you are an international applicant, then you have you post your application. Extra points are awarded to applicants who also send in a video application along with the hardcopy application and transcripts. The detailed information regarding the scholarship is mentioned on the university website under the scholarship option.

    How has the LLM experience been thus far? What are some of the more interesting courses that you have taken up, and plan to take up in your second year?

    It has been the most enriching experience for me intellectually as well as on a personal level. I say that because during the first two years I got to explore my options before actually deciding my major.

    During my undergrad years I was very inclined towards international law and intellectual property law. At SNU, I got an opportunity to take courses from both these majors during the first two semesters here. We have guest lectures during our regular classes apart from the various conferences and seminars. The professors here invite eminent speakers for our classes on a regular basis.

    On a personal basis I have come in contact with so many students from all around the world and the discussions in class definitely make the classes more interesting. Apart from this we have regular lunch with the entire class and the professors and this helps in more personal interactions outside class.

    “We also have regular lunch with the entire class and the professors and this helps in more personal interactions outside class.”

    All the courses that I have taken during the course of the first two semesters at SNU have been interesting. However, currently I am taking a course on climate change law and I feel this has been the most interesting course since climate change is such a burning issue right now.

    In the next semester, I mainly have to focus on my thesis and any other course that I decide to take. At SNU there is a qualification exam which is based on the student’s major that all the master’s and PhD students are supposed to take before they start working on their thesis. So I have to take the qualification exam in the upcoming semester.

    What are some of the benefits of living in a city such as Seoul? And what were some of the difficulties, if any, you faced in settling down?

    The main benefit of living in a city such as Seoul is the cultural exchange that one can experience. Seoul has so much to offer. The people are warm and welcoming here. You get a lot of exposure. There is lot to do here in Seoul. There are numerous conferences outside the university which foreign students can attend. A lot can be learned through volunteer work which attracts a lot of international students. Seoul’s culture is a mix of Asian and western culture. If you are a foodie, then Seoul is the place for you. If you love K-drama and K-pop, then it goes without saying that living in Seoul is a dream come true. Another benefit of living in Seoul is the fact that it is one of the safest places to be.

    “Seoul’s culture is a mix of Asian and western culture. If you are a foodie, then Seoul is the place for you. If you love K-drama and K-pop, then it goes without saying that living in Seoul is a dream come true.”

    The only difficulty I faced initially was the language barrier. Though I was prepared but not everyone speaks English here. However, I started taking language classes as soon as I arrived here so I did not face the language barrier any time later.

    Lastly, any advice for the Indian law graduate who is considering a master’s abroad?

    My advice would be to go for it. Do your research well in advance as to where you want to go for your higher studies. Work hard on your statement of purpose. You should keep in mind that you cannot copy someone else’s SOP and pass it as your own. It has to be your own because you have to convince the university authorities why should they select you through your SOP.

    Another important part of the application procedure is the letter of recommendation. I feel you should get your LORs from professors who personally know you because then they will be in a position to answer questions about you more accurately. Just like in your SOP you have to convince the university to consider your application for admission, similarly in the LOR your recommenders have to convince the university to consider you over other applicants.

    I believe you should maintain good grades because then it adds to your application as well. Also do not make hasty decisions when it comes to deciding the university where you want to study. Always take time to consider all the pros and cons and then make an informed decision.

    “Also do not make hasty decisions when it comes to deciding the university where you want to study. Always take time to consider all the pros and cons and then make an informed decision.”

  • The Unbearable Lightness or Not having a plan and being okay with it

    The Unbearable Lightness or Not having a plan and being okay with it

    It is important that life throws at you things that you do not understand. Things that make you stop and think a while, that make you re-evaluate, that make you pause in thought. Even if it is for just a few moments.

    This point was driven home the other day, while I was prepping for some more interviews to go under the FPA series. The way these interviews are set up is not really rocket science by any means. I ask, they answer. Boom! The interview is ready to go. And that is how it has largely been for most of the 60-odd FPAs published so far.

    Until the other day.

    I asked for an interview, and received an unexpected reply. In essence, the interviewee was not keen on answering the questions, not because he did not want to, but because he still had a lot to figure out.

    This happened with two, separate individuals on two completely different trajectories.

    And it got me thinking. I was so enmeshed in publishing more interviews, asking more people the steps they took before and after the LL.M., the planning involved etc that I had lost sight of the fact that one’s education is not always a linear process.

    It certainly does not have to be.

    You don’t have to know what you want to do after the master’s, you certainly don’t have to have every single thing planned out. In fact, some of the most interesting (and successful) people I know have lived this very reality.

    These are people who either did not know what they were going in for when they enrolled for a master’s, or were completely wrong about where their education would eventually lead them. And they were okay with that. They are definitely okay with it now.

    There may well be a time when you will look back at your past and see how it all made sense, a time when your LinkedIn profile looks picture perfect – so logical, so well planned out.

    You may well be a beneficiary of hindsight.

    Or you may not.

    I suppose the point I am trying to make is that not every single step of one’s education ought to follow a logical pathway. Some times you don’t need a plan. And you can be okay with it. Or rather, you should be.

  • First Person Accounts (International): Nur Ben-Hamida on the LL.M. at Glasgow University

    First Person Accounts (International): Nur Ben-Hamida on the LL.M. at Glasgow University

    As most readers know by now, First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of Indian law graduates who have pursued, or are currently pursuing, a post-graduate course (be it an LLM or otherwise) from different schools across the world.

    The FPA (International) is meant to broaden this scope somewhat, getting non-Indian law graduates to discuss their LL.M. experiences in different law schools from across the world. The idea behind the FPA(I) interviews is to help the Indian law graduate better understand her potential cohort, and also expand the LL.M. conversation in general.

    In the first FPA(I) interview, I get Nur Ben-Hamida (LLM, Glasgow University) to talk about her LL.M. experience, the difference between the undergraduate and post-graduate study of law, working in the UK, and a whole lot more.

    (Edited excerpts)

    With a law degree already in hand, what prompted you to enrol for a master’s course? And why the decision to enrol right after your undergraduate?

    I wanted to do a Master’s specifically to gain more expertise in the area I wish to specialise in, which is Intellectual Property Law specifically regarding copyright and publishing.

    The choice to do so right after completing my undergraduate degree was because the legal industry is incredibly saturated, and especially so for niche practice areas. I wanted to continue my studies and gain an extra level of experience and knowledge that would make me a competitor in today’s market.

    How did you go about selecting where to pursue the LLM, and why narrow down on Glasgow?

    Firstly, I had to consider what subjects and topics I would want to pursue. Intellectual Property at the time of my application was not a common Master’s subject, so it narrowed my choices regardless.

    I chose Glasgow because the School of Law is well known for excellence, both in teaching and research. It is also the home of CREATe which is a hub of Intellectual Property Law research, conferences and so on. Glasgow is also a very beautiful city, with an incredible campus, full of art and culture that I wanted to experience.

    “I chose Glasgow because the School of Law is well known for excellence, both in teaching and research. It is also the home of CREATe which is a hub of Intellectual Property Law research, conferences and so on. “

    Any advice on the application process? More specifically, the written requirements.

    The process is fairly straightforward for Glasgow, it didn’t take too long to fill out the forms. The written requirement for the LLM at the University of Glasgow was very simple.

    I would advise anyone to applying to research the programme they hope to enrol in, and discuss why they would be a good fit for it. Choosing the modules can be difficult and stressful, especially if you’re not sure what they entail exactly. The best thing is to see if you can contact any alumni and hear their thoughts on the modules they took. You are also allowed to take modules outside of your specialisation, for instance, I took Corporate Social Responsibility, which is a Corporate Law (LLM) module, because it sounded very interesting and as I had done some Intellectual Property in my LLB and wanted to be well rounded.

    Glasgow required references, which is something you must consider before you apply- as applications open in the summer when your university tutors may be away. Thankfully, my tutors are fantastic and were very quick to provide references (which, I admit, made me a shed a tear as they were very complimentary) but I am aware not everyone was this lucky. Make sure to request references early to avoid the last minute stress of trying to find anyone vaguely associated with your undergraduate to write something about you!

    Also, I advise to proof read! First impressions count, especially doing an LLM at Glasgow where you will meet those in charge of admissions because they deal with allocating your dissertation tutors, helping with any queries, and assignment hand-in!

    “First impressions count, especially doing an LLM at Glasgow where you will meet those in charge of admissions because they deal with allocating your dissertation tutors, helping with any queries, and assignment hand-in!”

    Did you seek financial aid of any kind?

    While Glasgow is very typical with its fees, I did seek financial aid through Student Loans Company. I also paid the fees in instalments which makes it much more doable and accessible, however they do require a large upfront fee also.

    There are also very many scholarships available that I recommend to look into, and monetary prizes from partners of the law school for things such as ‘Best Dissertation’.

    Apart from the length of the courses, what were some of the bigger differences between the LLB and the LLM courses?

    The difference is (pauses) everyone is as interested in the subject as you are! The classes are smaller, so it feels more personal. The classes are also more tailored to you learning each aspect of the subject in more depth than perhaps you would at LLB. It can be mind boggling, but it is fascinating how much detail you get taught and get to explore!

    The LL.M. is also much more self-guided than the LLB, many of the essays were self-titled, as in, you as in the individual get to pick a topic in law and pose your research and theories and legal analysis on it.

    “The LL.M. is also much more self-guided than the LLB, many of the essays were self-titled, as in, you as in the individual get to pick a topic in law and pose your research and theories and legal analysis on it.”

    I got to write essays on various topics- celebrities, graffiti, fashion, creative commons, internet culture and the law, branding, anything that took my fancy! This is really helpful as you can tailor your essays to the career you would like to go into- I was interested in the publishing industry, and so I focussed my essays on branding, fandom, internet piracy, rights management, compliance, e-commerce and so on.

    There is also much more reading. I thought there was a lot of reading for the LLB, but imagine three years’ worth of reading in one, and then add on all the extra ‘recommended’ reading! (advice: always try and do the extra recommended reading- the tutors WILL refer to it!)

    I am most interested in your current role – could you share a few lines on what your position at Nosy Crow involves? And how do you find yourself relying on the LLM learnings in your current position?

    My position at Nosy Crow is so exciting and varied! I mainly draft contracts- Authors, Illustrators and Foreign Rights contracts which are always keeping me on my toes. As well as that, I help advise any way I can regarding any Intellectual Property issues that come up including permission requests, trademarks, and so on.

    The publishing industry is perfect for someone who has studied law, especially Intellectual Property Law, as almost every aspect of publishing is touched in some way by Intellectual Property and governed by law. The in-depth teaching and global scale of my LLM has made feel that I have a strong enough knowledge base to feel safe in my decisions, and every module I chose to undertake at LLM level has been applicable to my role so far.

    “The publishing industry is perfect for someone who has studied law, especially Intellectual Property Law, as almost every aspect of publishing is touched in some way by Intellectual Property and governed by law.”

    The role has taught me things also, which is what you want from a job when you leave academia. It is challenging and has allowed me to put theory into practice, which is something you can only get from experience. Nosy Crow is a fantastic, optimistic, and modern place to work and I am excited to use more and more of my LLM learnings to help the company grow, and to be part of that growth.

    Lastly, any advice for law graduates who are considering an LLM, in the UK or otherwise?

    I fully recommend going for an LLM! Not only does it assist you in honing in on a specialism, you gain more knowledge than you would think possible, meet interesting people (a lot of people doing LLM’s in Glasgow are from all around the world, of all ages, of many different and exciting professions and backgrounds!), have more insight into the legal landscape as you will be a PART of it.

    I would advise to research early, know ahead of time what you would like to do and where you want to do in regards to the classes. I also recommend to look at the modules rather than university ratings or the name. There are some universities I thought I would have preferred to go to, but they didn’t offer the modules I thought would be useful for my future career. This is more important in an industry.

    “Look at the modules rather than university ratings or the name. There are some universities I thought I would have preferred to go to, but they didn’t offer the modules I thought would be useful for my future career. This is more important in an industry.”

    For most LLM’s, you will need a minimum of a 2.1 degree, so if you’re thinking about pursuing one, try and achieve this as a minimum, but if you’re hoping to specialise in an area (i.e. Intellectual Property), it would be favourable to score the top grade especially if you hope to secure a scholarship or grants, funding, or move forward with a PHD.

    Network! It is never too early to start meeting industry greats, and you will be expected to go to conferences and network throughout your LLM. I started appearing in conferences on behalf of my tutors in undergraduate, which I found incredibly helpful, and during my LLM they held workshops or conferences and I was also present there, and I was invited  to present my Master’s dissertation topic at a New IP Lawyers conference in the summer due to my presence at such conferences in the past, which was an incredible experience.

    Forge good relationships with your tutors. Not only will they provide you with references, but you never know- you could become colleagues on day, or you may cite their work in your dissertation, ask you to assist in research, send you to conferences, all things to bolster your CV!

    Write, and write, and write- and research! Staying up to date in your own time between semesters is important. Especially if you can do this on a global scale! Your tutors at LLM will be up to date, and will make references to ongoing litigation and controversy often. Researching and reading blog posts, then writing your own analysis on the topic in your chosen area of law is also important as it will train you for the severe hand cramp of constant typing that is the LLM. I had one month during the LLM  where I had to write three 10,000 word essays!

    “Write, and write, and write- and research! Staying up to date in your own time between semesters is important. Especially if you can do this on a global scale! Your tutors at LLM will be up to date, and will make references to ongoing litigation and controversy often.”

  • First Person Accounts: Tanmay Patnaik on the LL.M. at Fordham Law School

    First Person Accounts: Tanmay Patnaik on the LL.M. at Fordham Law School

    First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of Indian law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (LL.M. or otherwise) from different universities across the world.

    In this edition, I get to speak with Tanmay Patnaik , Principal Associate in the Private Client Practice at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas. In this FPA, he talks about his LL.M. experience at Fordham Law School (LLM ’11), the reasons behind enrolling right after his undergraduate law degree from Government Law College Mumbai, and a lot more.

    (Edited excerpts)

    You did not wait to work for a few years before deciding to enrol for an LL.M.? What was the thought process behind this?

    I was quite aware of the fact that with time, my priorities would change. I didn’t want to reach a stage in my career where I would be torn between holding on to a good job profile or putting it all aside for academic pursuits.

    It’s a conundrum which many associates have faced in the past and still do till date. My advise would be to enrol for an LL.M for the right reasons (whenever one chooses to). It shouldn’t be because it’s an option to fall back on.

    “My advise would be to enrol for an LL.M for the right reasons (whenever one chooses to). It shouldn’t be because it’s an option to fall back on.”

    Did you only look at US law schools, and what were some of the schools that you considered apart from Fordham? Also, why did you finally choose Fordham?

    I intentionally chose to apply to US law schools as I wanted to be exposed to a wider construct of business law. The interpretation of Contract law for example or business structures varies notably between the two jurisdictions. It was a conscious decision to augment my knowledge on the subject matter.

    I had applied to Cornell, Fordham, Georgetown, George Washington and USC. I received acceptances from all the schools I had applied to but chose Fordham because of its excellent faculty for the corporate law program and the fact that living in New York would offer me a fantastic networking opportunity. NYU Law runs a great tax program but at that time it wasn’t a subject I was keen to pursue.

    Any advice on how to go about the application process for US law schools? 

    This is a very critical issue in the scheme of things. Prospective applicants need to develop a certain degree of clarity as to why they have shortlisted a particular law school/program.

    One needs to ensure, to the extent possible, that your expectations are aligned with what a particular program/school is offering you. Very often, candidates are far more fascinated with the brand value of a law school rather than the market value of the program they’ve applied for.

    “Very often, candidates are far more fascinated with the brand value of a law school rather than the market value of the program they’ve applied for.”

    It’s important to do a SWOT analysis on each option because it’s certainly a significant investment of your time and money! I prepared my applications independently but did quite a bit of research on this matter in my fourth year of law school.

    Thoughts on prepping the personal statement, and letters of recommendation?

    I am currently the Co-Chair of Fordham Law School’s India Chapter and I receive such queries quite often. The only advice I would give to students is to present an honest representation of themselves.

    I must admit that my law school days were anything but what one would call ‘normal’. In my free time I dabbled in the world of acting – tv shows and advertisements. This raised a few eyebrows as to whether I was even serious about law! However, each audition was learning experience for me. It taught me how to deal with rejection. For every 10 auditions I’d probably not get a call back for 5-6 of them. It helped build my resolve to work harder on myself.

    I applied this same philosophy in the study of law and penned down an honest representation of this journey in my application. Law schools aren’t simply looking at you as a candidate with an excellent scorecard but what you will bring to the class as a personality. It is after all a ‘personal statement’ – it shouldn’t be just a summary of your internships or publications.

    “Law schools aren’t simply looking at you as a candidate with an excellent scorecard but what you will bring to the class as a personality. It is after all a ‘personal statement’ – it shouldn’t be just a summary of your internships or publications.”

    This is your single opportunity to stand out from the crowd. Make it count.

    As far as letters of recommendation are concerned,  I’d recommend obtaining it from a faculty member/senior professional with whom you have had a long standing acquaintance with. The admission team of most schools can tell if a recommendation is  genuine or not.

    Did you apply for financial aid of any kind?

    No. I did not. However, simply based on my application, I did receive the USC Gould School of Law Scholarship to cover half my tuition. Certain schools offer such scholarships as an incentive for candidates they are keen on admitting. That was a pleasant surprise.

    How was your LL.M. experience at Fordham? Any particular learnings that, looking back, are far more valuable than you thought they would be at that time?

    I cherish the time I spent at Fordham. I found the teaching method in US law schools was quite refreshing. The classes were quite engaging as they tend to focus on real time issues and not drone on into being too theoretical. We weren’t required to submit regular essays but actively focused on in class discussions and deliberations. Importance is given to the application of the law in the real world scenario. This helps sharpen your analytical thinking abilities as a lawyer.

    What would you say are the best ways in which to maximise the LLM experience given that the course itself is barely nine months long?

    Being at Fordham I had the advantage to network in the grand city of New York. It truly is the city which never sleeps and you need to keep pace. It was one of the critical reasons why I chose Fordham.

    Given your experience, how do you think Indian law firms view a potential hire who has a foreign LL.M.? Any advantages?

    A foreign LL.M is not a guaranteed advantage per se. This is a very subjective matter and varies on a case to case basis. I believe it’s ultimately how a candidate is able to market his skill set to a prospective employer which is critical.

    Lastly, what advice would you have for the Indian law graduate who is considering a master’s course outside the country?

    It is important to have clarity of thought on two aspects:

    • Reasons why you want to do an LL.M (be very honest with yourself)
    • Reasons why you have shortlisted a school / program

    My advice would be to deep dive into these issues at a granular level.