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  • First Person Accounts: Debolina Saha on the MIPP, George Washington University

    Debolina Saha doesn’t stand still. She is a capital markets lawyer who has worked at some of the biggest law firms across the world.

    Debolina Saha
    Debolina Saha

    She is also the founder of Internship Bank, which she says is part of her “quest to bring about gender diversity at workplaces in India.” (See below)

    #WeAreElliott: Debolina Saha

    And last year, Debolina enrolled in the Master’s in International Policy and Practice at George Washington University’s Elliott School of International Affairs (MIPP). In this First Person Account, she discusses her reasons for opting for the MIPP, why she thinks more lawyers should broaden their horizons, and a whole lot more.

    Recently you shared your excitement at being able to work at a World Bank organisation, something you had dreamed of as a child. Has the feeling of incredulity passed?

    I love working at the International Finance Corporation (IFC). I enjoy working on projects that have a true impact on the world. And my colleagues are incredibly smart and come from extremely varied backgrounds. I look forward to going to the office every day.

    It’s also hard work!

    I have worked at many law firms, including magic circle and silver circle firms. And I can say with confidence that working at the World Bank is as challenging as any law firm.

    After more than a decade as a capital markets lawyer, you decided to get a master’s in International Policy and Practice. Why did you pursue this degree? And were there any other schools that you applied to?

    I wanted to build on the skills that I developed as an international capital markets lawyer. Good lawyers learn to analyse and solve problems, communicate clearly and think logically under incredible pressure. These are incredibly useful skills that can be used in other fields.

    I also wanted to open up new employment avenues and give myself a chance to work on projects that help others.

    And that’s why I applied to the Elliott School. With an MIPP degree from George Washington University, I could leverage my skills as a lawyer and then look at career options in policy or as a diplomat.

    I actually took a big risk during the application process. I didn’t apply to any other schools, I just applied to the Elliott School. I don’t know if that was a good strategy. But I wanted to be in [Washington] DC. And the Elliott School is one of the top ranked policy schools in the world.

    It’s also close to the World Bank and the IFC in terms of location.

    The physical proximity of the World Bank and IFC showed up in our classes. We always had people from these organisations take classes or talk about their experiences working in these organisations.

    In the end, I think my strategy worked. Instead of blindly following the rankings, I took a more holistic approach to choosing the right school. I picked a highly ranked school with connections to the places I wanted to work.

    I think this is another thing that potential applicants must keep in mind. If your goal is to work in Washington DC, you don’t want to be going to Harvard and then not know anyone in DC.

    What have been some of the more rewarding aspects of the MIPP course? In a similar vein, what have been some of the most challenging?

    I learned a great deal pursuing my MIPP degree. But interestingly enough, the MIPP course was also a terrific networking opportunity. And that was tremendously helpful. The course also put me in touch with the right kind of people who could help me achieve my dream of working in a developmental organisation.

    I also liked the way the course was structured. It included a significant amount of critical analysis and writing. There is a certain type of writing in the policy world, and the MIPP really prepares you for that.

    In terms of challenges, I think my law degree really helped me in terms of thinking analytically and critically. I still had to adjust my writing style — and that was a significant challenge. But I had a good foundation.

    Could you tell me a bit more about your cohort at the Elliott School – what were some of the more common motivations behind enrolling for the course? 

    The cohort was quite interesting.

    For the first time in my life, I was in classes full of people from the military. I also had a classmate with a theatre background and one that is planning to run for president in Uganda.  It was an interesting and supportive cohort.

    In fact, one of my cohorts recommended me for my job at the World Bank! I really cherish the sense of community and closeness my cohort had.

    Looking back, how did you find yourself using your legal experience whilst a MIPP candidate? And did you find yourself having to unlearn anything through the duration of the course?

    I had to unlearn how to write like a lawyer. In the policy world, you write to summarise. Everything needs to be short, direct and simple. But as a lawyer you describe more – so that took an entire semester for me to get over.

    Would you advise other lawyers to do something similar in terms of courses?

    Yes. Having a law degree is great. But people should always explore other avenues that could bring them satisfaction.

    The Elliott School helped me envision other career avenues. I can now apply to organisations that would have otherwise not even looked at me previously.

    A similar experience can do the same for others.

    Lastly, any advice for the Indian law graduate who is considering a non-LLM graduate course abroad?

    Well, one piece of advice is that you should really start networking from day one. Treat networking as part of your curriculum. You must go and take the initiative.

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  • First Person Accounts: Anjana Parvathy on the LLM at the Institute for Law & Finance, funding foreign studies & more

    First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (an LLM or otherwise) from different universities across the world.

    Anjana Parvathy
    Anjana Parvathy

    Anjana Parvathy completed an LLM (Finance) from the Institute for Law & Finance (Goethe University Frankfurt) in 2018. In this freewheeling conversation, she talks about how she went about planning her finances for the course, studying and working in Germany, and a whole lot more.  

    I will come to the LLM experience in a bit, but for now let us focus on funding the LLM. How did you plan your own finances, what were some of the loan providers (if multiple providers) did you look at, and what were some of the non-tuition expenses you budgeted for?

    The biggest hurdle in pursing an LLM abroad is coming up with the necessary funding. For my LLM studies, I opted for a combination of self-financing and a bank loan. Upon acceptance of an offer, some universities require you to pay an acceptance deposit equal to a certain percentage of your tuition fees.

    This is the time when you are just applying for a bank loan so you may have to remit the amount from your own sources (savings, family assistance, etc). 

    For the rest of the tuition fees and expenses, I took the SBI Global Ed-vantage scheme offered by the State Bank of India. I also came to know of the DAAD scholarships while I was there.

    Some of the non-tuition expenses that I budgeted for was housing/accommodation and utility bills, food and necessities, health insurance, public transport (covered by the semester fees in Germany), photocopies/books.

    I also accounted for optional german classes. 

    We spoke about the different positions that foreign students can take up while studying, starting with an internship, and then a research assistant. Could you tell me a bit about how one can apply for these positions, and the range of pay?

    In Germany, you are allowed to take up student jobs while pursuing your studies. However, these are subject to rules and conditions prescribed by the country (and your university). For instance, when I was studying, I had an option to work for around 20 hours a week, along with your studies, as a research assistant or work student.

    There was also a condition in Germany that under your student visa, you are permitted to work for 120 full days or 240 half days. During semester breaks, you can pursue a full time internship. I got my internship since it was a mandatory requirement of the course. However, one could apply for such positions through the company/law firm careers page, or through Linkedin jobs.

    The pay depends on where you are interning, but it is my assumption that you could expect around 800-1,000 euros a month for an internship, or 15 to 25 euros an hour, as a research assistant. 

    One of the interesting bits you mentioned was the tax refund that you, as an international student, can claim towards education expenses. How did you find out about this provision, and can you elaborate on how this can be used? 

    Since I had begun interning half way through my course, I consulted a tax consultant to file my tax returns. It was through him that I came to know of the fact that certain other expenses as a student may be tax deductible. You can file your returns retroactively for up to four years.

    German tax law is complicated so I would advise you to invest in a tax consultant. He may charge you anything between 100 to 150 euros an hour for consultation. 

    Given that LLM applicants regularly approach you for advice on the ILF LLM program, what would you like more applicants to know? Specifically, what are the factors/costs they should take into account but usually do not? 

    Books and photocopies are often missed, some countries restrict you from taking photocopies because of the copyright laws or you may want to own a book for future references.

    Secondly, understand the country’s student benefits as well, along with university scholarships and other things.

    Lastly, it is also my understanding that some universities offer to match the cost of tuition of competing universities.

    Alright, coming to the LLM itself, why did you choose this particular course? And, with the benefit of hindsight, what were some of the tangible benefits of the course from a professional point of view? 

    I chose this course because of a) its location – situated in the heart of Europe and important financial hub, Frankfurt; and b) curriculum – the course is open to both, law and economics students and the curriculum is interdisciplinary and offers a combination of law and economic subjects.

    The course is very practical and with the internship, it only adds on to your practical experience. In hindsight, I got to interact with 50 other students from 20 different countries. some of whom I am still in touch with, so I am grateful for the network and exposure. 

    Final question – is there anything in particular that more Indian law graduates should know about the foreign LLM experience?

    For me, the experience was an eye-opener.

    Obviously your knowledge pool increases, but so does your confidence while interacting with people.

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  • What is it like to be going back to school when you are (nearly) forty?

    What is it like to be going back to school when you are (nearly) forty?

    Time can be deliciously cunning, no? Lulling you into a sense of comfort, of being able to monitor and count the days, the weeks, and the years as they pass by. And then, without even the hint of a warning, rushing you into the present, forcing you to wonder where on earth did all that time go.

    My thoughts over the last few weeks have been along somewhat similar lines, albeit more jumbled up, as I gear up to a year-long stint at formal education. This, after what feels like forever, and in reality is almost two decades. I was not even twenty years old when I last walked into formal education, and twenty-four when I last walked out.

    It has been a while. Quite a while.

    So much has changed, for the good and the not so good.

    I like the fact that I now possess a greater sense of clarity, at least when it comes to my education. I know what I want from the master’s experience and have a (rough) idea of how to get there. Compare this to my undergraduate law experience, where, well “clarity” was not the word I would use to describe it. I was amongst that (not so small) group of students who were studying law because they did not want to study engineering nor medicine, and law seemed like a way out.

    Looking back, perhaps that was what I needed at that time – to be a little lost and plenty confused.

    Perhaps.

    I also like the fact that with age comes a certain degree of confidence. Of knowing that you have gone through challenging times and managed to see it through somehow. I think this is also deeply connected to the earlier point about clarity – there is a certain amount of ease that comes with knowing what you can (and cannot) do and, most importantly, of knowing that things will work out.

    I don’t like the fact that with this confidence, there is also a sense of complacency. Of not being as open to new experiences, and people, and conversations as you might have been when you were younger. Forgive the cliché, but there is a definite reluctance in stepping out of one’s comfort zone.

    How this plays out in the classroom will be interesting, and I suspect more than slightly painful.

    I also don’t like the physical changes that come with ageing. Forget the creaks and squeaks that are now a part of the morning musical opera of your body, but there is also a very real awareness that you can’t pull those all-nighters anymore, that you need (oh yes you need) those seven or eight hours of sleep, and that the lack of food at predetermined times can and will lead to the rise of The Hanger.

    In one sense I know what the days and months to come hold for me; the class structure and syllabus have been shared, the resources have been discussed, the reading lists have been allotted. In another sense, everything is a mystery – how will the classroom discussions be, what will my cohort be like in reality, and where will I fit into all of this.

    What I do know is that the future is exciting, and that this feeling of a very real curiosity is quite intoxicating.

    (Lead Photo by Martin Reisch on Unsplash)

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  • First Person Accounts: Tesu Gupta on the Investment Treaty Arbitration LLM, Uppsala University

    First Person Accounts (FPA’s) are meant to provide a first-hand account of law graduates who have pursued, or are pursuing, a post-graduate course (an LLM or otherwise) from different universities across the world.

    Tesu Gupta, LLM LLM in Investment Treaty Arbitration, Uppsala University
    Tesu Gupta

    In this FPA, Tesu Gupta shares her experiences as a student of the LLM in Investment Treaty Arbitration offered by Uppsala University. Currently practicing in the Delhi High Court, Tesu has also completed an LLM from Amity University in 2020, where she focused on international trade and economic law. 

    The Uppsala LLM was your second LLM, after an LLM in International Trade & Economic Law from Amity Law School. What got you thinking about a second master’s? What were some of your expectations from the second LLM?

    The LLM in Investment Treaty Arbitration from Uppsala University is all thanks to my mentor, the Late Prof. Dr. R.L. Kaul and his vision for me. Since my undergraduate studies I’ve always had an interest for Arbitration law, trade laws and investments, international law and this led me to pursue my first master’s degree.

    Post that, I had an intention to go for a PhD.

    However, while I was enrolled in ITEL programme of Amity University, only then I realised that before going for PhD I should go for an LLM abroad.

    Given the specialised nature of your interest, were there any other schools that you applied to? And if so, what got you to narrow down on Uppsala?

    I had made only one application while applying for Universities abroad.

    While making an application in Swedish Universities, one can apply to 4 universities in one application. Besides ITA programme of Uppsala University, I had applied to the ICAL programme of Stockholm University, and European and International Trade and Tax Law programme of Lund University.

    I opted for Swedish universities because of their inclination towards research oriented teaching styles and class-sizes.

    With the benefit of hindsight, what were some of the most rewarding aspects of the Uppsala LLM? Also, were there any substantial differences in the learning experiences at Uppsala and Amity University?

    Indeed the LLM programme of Uppsala University is very much rewarding and satisfying as one is inclined towards research. From getting to interact and learn from excellent faculty members in the field of investment treaty arbitration to presenting and discussing the issues with them, collaborating with other professionals from across the globe are few of the many advantages of the programme.

    As far as the differences between both the LLMs are concerned, the programme design is the major difference. Pedagogy, classroom size, examination patterns, defending of the thesis/ dissertation also differ.

    Apart from the classroom experience, were there any other aspects of the Uppsala LLM that you found to be particularly rewarding?

    Apart from classroom there were extra-curricular activities. We had guest lectures, moot arbitration in collaboration with the law firms, workshops and seminars related to research methodologies & research database management. Uppsala University also has the culture of Student unions and nations.

    Several student nations and student unions offer different physical activities such as soccer, floorball, yoga, and running groups.

    The University also has a Student Health Centre that has health educators who work with preventive activities to promote student mental health. Every semester the Student Health Services offer seminars and courses for students.

    Besides all this, the University keeps organising various lectures and conferences that are available on the University website.

    Now that you have worked for a while, how do you think the Uppsala LLM has helped you in your professional growth? Do you see more lawyers and clients recognising the importance of specialised knowledge?

    Yes, a specialized LLM does help in professional growth. It has helped me immensely at an intellectual level. Considering the reason that I have spent two years for LLM right after my undergraduate degree I am yet to taste the benefits on a professional level. But yes, it does give an edge and confidence.

    However, there are always two sides to a coin.

    Sometimes, people have a misconception that candidates with a master’s degree/ LLM want to limit themselves to an academic career. An annoying yet funny thing that I observed was that recruiters think that if a candidate has an LLM degree then she might leave the job for a PhD, which is not the case.

    In fact, I have been denied of opportunities because of this.

    Lastly, any advice for the Indian law graduate who is considering a master’s abroad?

    Before going for a Master’s abroad, I would say that it is better to have an exposure to the “after law school” life. A practical experience in the industry, be it in litigation, law firms or corporate houses etc. helps in providing a clarity to the concepts and to the vision.

    If one wants to go for an LLM that too for a foreign degree then that should be planned carefully, ideally after spending a few years in the industry of home country.

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  • Gifting mangoes and the insecurities of an international student

    Gifting mangoes and the insecurities of an international student

    A few months ago, I took a train down to Bombay from the smallish town that I have lived in for the past three years. With me was a big pile of drumsticks, a couple of kilos of sweet potatoes still covered in mud, and fifteen odd elaichi bananas. All of these from my very own backyard.

    I was heading down to the big city to meet an old, old friend of mine who I had not seen for perhaps half a decade. We had both been quite terrible at keeping in touch, and so there was going to be a lot to say and hear.

    Our meeting turned out to be far too short; our words had to be rushed out to tell each other as much as we could. So much had changed, and so much had not. When it was time to leave, we lied to each other and said that it would definitely not be another five years until we met again.

    I told her I loved her and missed her and handed over the drumsticks, the sweet potatoes, the elaichi bananas.

    The evening train back started from what was once called Victoria Terminus; a haughty regal building with ceilings so high. I thought of my friend as the train rushed through the chaos of this vast city, blurring the people waiting on the smaller “local” stations for their own train back home. I thought of all that happened in the past three years, and all the lessons this time had taught me.

    I have learnt that there are flowers that live but half a day, falling to the ground in the morning like a forgotten memory. That tomatoes, when perfectly ripe, will allow themselves to be plucked with barely any resistance. That the roots of a papaya tree can eat through concrete, slowly but with great determination.

    I learnt that toads love to sneak into your shoes in the night, and that snakes prefer dark corners and cool floors in the summer. That stray dogs often attack small cats in the middle of the night, and that burying dead kittens can break your heart.

    I have learnt that there are things which cannot be rushed, that no matter how much effort you put in, sometimes all you need to do is watch and wait.

    I have learnt that, if you are lucky, every evening you will feel a soft, gentle breeze right when the sun has nearly set. And if you look up, you will see the last of the birds magically finding their way home.

    Yes, the past three years have taught this city brat many lessons. And, now that the mangoes are in season, I pack them in little boxes filled with dried leaves, and make a list of the ones I love.

    In a few weeks from now, I will begin my own journey as an international student. After being able to help others with their study abroad aspirations, I suppose now is a good time to embark on my own.

    It is quite exciting.

    But there is also equal bits of worry and fear. What if I am unable to cope with the now alien excitement of a bustling city, and the people who live in them? Will we have something in common to talk about, or will we be separated by a wall of incomprehension?

    I worry that the past three years have changed what I want and desire, and that perhaps the education I seek may not sit too well with this change. That my peers have achieved a lot more in a lot less time, and that it will be difficult to relate.

    What if they mock or worse, fail to understand?

    I do worry.

    At the same time, I know that the next year is a new chapter of learning, of unknowing and of change. That perhaps sometime in the future, I will join the friends I make as we pluck potatoes from the sweet soil, pointing up at the birds as they magically fly their way back home.

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